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Fry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.
True, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that."
] |
>
I remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying "taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it".
Generational brainwashing working perfectly. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step."
] |
>
Brexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.
Interestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit.
What a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly."
] |
>
The silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas.
Be it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much.
I guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least! | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government."
] |
>
Shit, you're right. The "leave" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o
Thanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :( | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!"
] |
>
I'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?
So many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.
All we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :("
] |
>
Same in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it."
] |
>
Yeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best."
] |
>
£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once."
] |
>
How do they come up with these numbers? | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang."
] |
>
It was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?"
] |
>
That bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history.
I had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way."
] |
>
I had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.
I'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.
What has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks "yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want."
] |
>
I’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit.
My dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen."
] |
>
My favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they? | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are."
] |
>
Or the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?"
] |
>
As an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members"
] |
>
Good guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters.
A sacrifice we will not forget. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements."
] |
>
As if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.
It's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.
If "But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget."
] |
>
The Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night."
] |
>
It's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence."
] |
>
The UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a "better deal", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less."
] |
>
“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”
“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.” | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely."
] |
>
I like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”"
] |
>
The UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy."
] |
>
I was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:
However, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since.
The underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now"
] |
>
The BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%."
] |
>
It's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK! | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing."
] |
>
Admittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!"
] |
>
This has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without."
] |
>
Well, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable."
] |
>
I've been watching "the Crown" with my wife, lately.
It's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different "class", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.
I mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also "the haves and the have-nots", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.
It is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up... | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now."
] |
>
The Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.
I believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.
The Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.
I also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up..."
] |
>
The funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority."
] |
>
I'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them"
] |
>
I think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.
I also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too.
I've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:
Appointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a "lord", but so would the Muslim Council)
Appointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind.
Appointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice.
Say a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?) | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago."
] |
>
Appointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street
Definitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).
Appointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know? | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)"
] |
>
Definitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).
I am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.
Having random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.
Plus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?"
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How sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️ | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity."
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Brexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️"
] |
>
or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.
I've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.
Bar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could.
The issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend."
] |
>
Even if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around."
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I imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.
Of course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around."
] |
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What exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin"
] |
>
Nothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking"
] |
>
‘Are ya winning, lad?’ | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU."
] |
>
"are ya winning son?"
"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that" | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’"
] |
>
Not sure if I should laugh or cry. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\""
] |
>
Dont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry."
] |
>
And the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt."
] |
>
Queen consort Camela? | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh"
] |
>
No, Freddy Mercury | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?"
] |
>
Honestly would not mind Freddy being queen | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury"
] |
>
Should have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen"
] |
>
A billion a year every year! | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99."
] |
>
This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)
Brexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.
The Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither "Easy nor precise," not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.
The UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.
Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5 | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!"
] |
>
Should never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.
An extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5"
] |
>
A non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al."
] |
>
To be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide.
It elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.
I think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy."
] |
>
Add to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again."
] |
>
Tory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.
I mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media."
] |
>
I thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement."
] |
>
True, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power."
] |
>
Look, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware.
Russia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents.
Boris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did.
Britian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly.
Just like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side.
I make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing"
] |
>
I am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off"
] |
>
Extra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered.
Good fkn job Boris and his band of bozos. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years."
] |
>
They made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos."
] |
>
Read this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews
By Andrew Atkinson
Brexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.
An analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government.
Economists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure."
] |
>
A book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening."
] |
>
Print that on a bus! | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed."
] |
>
Paid for by the NHS | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!"
] |
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I guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS"
] |
>
I heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.
He can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!? | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician."
] |
>
Yeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?"
] |
>
Is anyone surprised? Brexit was fueled by dishonesty and many Brits were fooled into voting for it.
I still can’t figure out why the British right wingers pushed so hard for Brexit, are they that stupid that they thought they’d be better off? Are they that stupid to honestly believe they wouldn’t need workers from other countries? Did they want to hurt their own economy?
I know here in the US the right wing touts similar stupidity, but I never really thought any of the leaders believed it, but maybe those at the top are just that stupid. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?",
">\n\nYeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind"
] |
>
They've been lying about and fear mongering over immigrants as a cover for tax cuts for rich people for so long that the people meant to be bamboozled by it have all grown up and now are leaders in conservatism. They were never meant to believe such preposterous lies, but now they do, because current conservative leaders learned it supposedly in good faith from their leaders. The smart ones picked up on the scam and exploited it, and the stupid ones believed it and now govern based on it. Now it's like an AI humanity accidentally created and set into the world. It can't be controlled and can't be shut down, but it can tear apart geopolitical alliances. It's creators can only look on helplessly and hope their profits were worth it. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?",
">\n\nYeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind",
">\n\nIs anyone surprised? Brexit was fueled by dishonesty and many Brits were fooled into voting for it. \nI still can’t figure out why the British right wingers pushed so hard for Brexit, are they that stupid that they thought they’d be better off? Are they that stupid to honestly believe they wouldn’t need workers from other countries? Did they want to hurt their own economy? \nI know here in the US the right wing touts similar stupidity, but I never really thought any of the leaders believed it, but maybe those at the top are just that stupid."
] |
>
The Republicans in the US have also been almost completely taken over by people who are high on their own supply. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?",
">\n\nYeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind",
">\n\nIs anyone surprised? Brexit was fueled by dishonesty and many Brits were fooled into voting for it. \nI still can’t figure out why the British right wingers pushed so hard for Brexit, are they that stupid that they thought they’d be better off? Are they that stupid to honestly believe they wouldn’t need workers from other countries? Did they want to hurt their own economy? \nI know here in the US the right wing touts similar stupidity, but I never really thought any of the leaders believed it, but maybe those at the top are just that stupid.",
">\n\nThey've been lying about and fear mongering over immigrants as a cover for tax cuts for rich people for so long that the people meant to be bamboozled by it have all grown up and now are leaders in conservatism. They were never meant to believe such preposterous lies, but now they do, because current conservative leaders learned it supposedly in good faith from their leaders. The smart ones picked up on the scam and exploited it, and the stupid ones believed it and now govern based on it. Now it's like an AI humanity accidentally created and set into the world. It can't be controlled and can't be shut down, but it can tear apart geopolitical alliances. It's creators can only look on helplessly and hope their profits were worth it."
] |
>
The people who want this are benefiting from backroom deals. What they want from government is for it to do nothing and keep out of the way. Stupid and weird politicians are perfect for this. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?",
">\n\nYeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind",
">\n\nIs anyone surprised? Brexit was fueled by dishonesty and many Brits were fooled into voting for it. \nI still can’t figure out why the British right wingers pushed so hard for Brexit, are they that stupid that they thought they’d be better off? Are they that stupid to honestly believe they wouldn’t need workers from other countries? Did they want to hurt their own economy? \nI know here in the US the right wing touts similar stupidity, but I never really thought any of the leaders believed it, but maybe those at the top are just that stupid.",
">\n\nThey've been lying about and fear mongering over immigrants as a cover for tax cuts for rich people for so long that the people meant to be bamboozled by it have all grown up and now are leaders in conservatism. They were never meant to believe such preposterous lies, but now they do, because current conservative leaders learned it supposedly in good faith from their leaders. The smart ones picked up on the scam and exploited it, and the stupid ones believed it and now govern based on it. Now it's like an AI humanity accidentally created and set into the world. It can't be controlled and can't be shut down, but it can tear apart geopolitical alliances. It's creators can only look on helplessly and hope their profits were worth it.",
">\n\nThe Republicans in the US have also been almost completely taken over by people who are high on their own supply."
] |
>
Blue passports though! | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?",
">\n\nYeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind",
">\n\nIs anyone surprised? Brexit was fueled by dishonesty and many Brits were fooled into voting for it. \nI still can’t figure out why the British right wingers pushed so hard for Brexit, are they that stupid that they thought they’d be better off? Are they that stupid to honestly believe they wouldn’t need workers from other countries? Did they want to hurt their own economy? \nI know here in the US the right wing touts similar stupidity, but I never really thought any of the leaders believed it, but maybe those at the top are just that stupid.",
">\n\nThey've been lying about and fear mongering over immigrants as a cover for tax cuts for rich people for so long that the people meant to be bamboozled by it have all grown up and now are leaders in conservatism. They were never meant to believe such preposterous lies, but now they do, because current conservative leaders learned it supposedly in good faith from their leaders. The smart ones picked up on the scam and exploited it, and the stupid ones believed it and now govern based on it. Now it's like an AI humanity accidentally created and set into the world. It can't be controlled and can't be shut down, but it can tear apart geopolitical alliances. It's creators can only look on helplessly and hope their profits were worth it.",
">\n\nThe Republicans in the US have also been almost completely taken over by people who are high on their own supply.",
">\n\nThe people who want this are benefiting from backroom deals. What they want from government is for it to do nothing and keep out of the way. Stupid and weird politicians are perfect for this."
] |
>
Got mine recently and it’s black. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?",
">\n\nYeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind",
">\n\nIs anyone surprised? Brexit was fueled by dishonesty and many Brits were fooled into voting for it. \nI still can’t figure out why the British right wingers pushed so hard for Brexit, are they that stupid that they thought they’d be better off? Are they that stupid to honestly believe they wouldn’t need workers from other countries? Did they want to hurt their own economy? \nI know here in the US the right wing touts similar stupidity, but I never really thought any of the leaders believed it, but maybe those at the top are just that stupid.",
">\n\nThey've been lying about and fear mongering over immigrants as a cover for tax cuts for rich people for so long that the people meant to be bamboozled by it have all grown up and now are leaders in conservatism. They were never meant to believe such preposterous lies, but now they do, because current conservative leaders learned it supposedly in good faith from their leaders. The smart ones picked up on the scam and exploited it, and the stupid ones believed it and now govern based on it. Now it's like an AI humanity accidentally created and set into the world. It can't be controlled and can't be shut down, but it can tear apart geopolitical alliances. It's creators can only look on helplessly and hope their profits were worth it.",
">\n\nThe Republicans in the US have also been almost completely taken over by people who are high on their own supply.",
">\n\nThe people who want this are benefiting from backroom deals. What they want from government is for it to do nothing and keep out of the way. Stupid and weird politicians are perfect for this.",
">\n\nBlue passports though!"
] |
>
Like the future! | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?",
">\n\nYeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind",
">\n\nIs anyone surprised? Brexit was fueled by dishonesty and many Brits were fooled into voting for it. \nI still can’t figure out why the British right wingers pushed so hard for Brexit, are they that stupid that they thought they’d be better off? Are they that stupid to honestly believe they wouldn’t need workers from other countries? Did they want to hurt their own economy? \nI know here in the US the right wing touts similar stupidity, but I never really thought any of the leaders believed it, but maybe those at the top are just that stupid.",
">\n\nThey've been lying about and fear mongering over immigrants as a cover for tax cuts for rich people for so long that the people meant to be bamboozled by it have all grown up and now are leaders in conservatism. They were never meant to believe such preposterous lies, but now they do, because current conservative leaders learned it supposedly in good faith from their leaders. The smart ones picked up on the scam and exploited it, and the stupid ones believed it and now govern based on it. Now it's like an AI humanity accidentally created and set into the world. It can't be controlled and can't be shut down, but it can tear apart geopolitical alliances. It's creators can only look on helplessly and hope their profits were worth it.",
">\n\nThe Republicans in the US have also been almost completely taken over by people who are high on their own supply.",
">\n\nThe people who want this are benefiting from backroom deals. What they want from government is for it to do nothing and keep out of the way. Stupid and weird politicians are perfect for this.",
">\n\nBlue passports though!",
">\n\nGot mine recently and it’s black."
] |
>
Everyone I know who is pro-brexit has already made their money (I.e. retired). Shows you how selfish the decision was made… l | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?",
">\n\nYeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind",
">\n\nIs anyone surprised? Brexit was fueled by dishonesty and many Brits were fooled into voting for it. \nI still can’t figure out why the British right wingers pushed so hard for Brexit, are they that stupid that they thought they’d be better off? Are they that stupid to honestly believe they wouldn’t need workers from other countries? Did they want to hurt their own economy? \nI know here in the US the right wing touts similar stupidity, but I never really thought any of the leaders believed it, but maybe those at the top are just that stupid.",
">\n\nThey've been lying about and fear mongering over immigrants as a cover for tax cuts for rich people for so long that the people meant to be bamboozled by it have all grown up and now are leaders in conservatism. They were never meant to believe such preposterous lies, but now they do, because current conservative leaders learned it supposedly in good faith from their leaders. The smart ones picked up on the scam and exploited it, and the stupid ones believed it and now govern based on it. Now it's like an AI humanity accidentally created and set into the world. It can't be controlled and can't be shut down, but it can tear apart geopolitical alliances. It's creators can only look on helplessly and hope their profits were worth it.",
">\n\nThe Republicans in the US have also been almost completely taken over by people who are high on their own supply.",
">\n\nThe people who want this are benefiting from backroom deals. What they want from government is for it to do nothing and keep out of the way. Stupid and weird politicians are perfect for this.",
">\n\nBlue passports though!",
">\n\nGot mine recently and it’s black.",
">\n\nLike the future!"
] |
>
Both of my grandfathers voted to leave. They then both died 2 years before we actually left. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?",
">\n\nYeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind",
">\n\nIs anyone surprised? Brexit was fueled by dishonesty and many Brits were fooled into voting for it. \nI still can’t figure out why the British right wingers pushed so hard for Brexit, are they that stupid that they thought they’d be better off? Are they that stupid to honestly believe they wouldn’t need workers from other countries? Did they want to hurt their own economy? \nI know here in the US the right wing touts similar stupidity, but I never really thought any of the leaders believed it, but maybe those at the top are just that stupid.",
">\n\nThey've been lying about and fear mongering over immigrants as a cover for tax cuts for rich people for so long that the people meant to be bamboozled by it have all grown up and now are leaders in conservatism. They were never meant to believe such preposterous lies, but now they do, because current conservative leaders learned it supposedly in good faith from their leaders. The smart ones picked up on the scam and exploited it, and the stupid ones believed it and now govern based on it. Now it's like an AI humanity accidentally created and set into the world. It can't be controlled and can't be shut down, but it can tear apart geopolitical alliances. It's creators can only look on helplessly and hope their profits were worth it.",
">\n\nThe Republicans in the US have also been almost completely taken over by people who are high on their own supply.",
">\n\nThe people who want this are benefiting from backroom deals. What they want from government is for it to do nothing and keep out of the way. Stupid and weird politicians are perfect for this.",
">\n\nBlue passports though!",
">\n\nGot mine recently and it’s black.",
">\n\nLike the future!",
">\n\nEveryone I know who is pro-brexit has already made their money (I.e. retired). Shows you how selfish the decision was made… l"
] |
>
Ive had three grandparents who voted leave and died in an underfunded NHS hospital. The system is dumb | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?",
">\n\nYeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind",
">\n\nIs anyone surprised? Brexit was fueled by dishonesty and many Brits were fooled into voting for it. \nI still can’t figure out why the British right wingers pushed so hard for Brexit, are they that stupid that they thought they’d be better off? Are they that stupid to honestly believe they wouldn’t need workers from other countries? Did they want to hurt their own economy? \nI know here in the US the right wing touts similar stupidity, but I never really thought any of the leaders believed it, but maybe those at the top are just that stupid.",
">\n\nThey've been lying about and fear mongering over immigrants as a cover for tax cuts for rich people for so long that the people meant to be bamboozled by it have all grown up and now are leaders in conservatism. They were never meant to believe such preposterous lies, but now they do, because current conservative leaders learned it supposedly in good faith from their leaders. The smart ones picked up on the scam and exploited it, and the stupid ones believed it and now govern based on it. Now it's like an AI humanity accidentally created and set into the world. It can't be controlled and can't be shut down, but it can tear apart geopolitical alliances. It's creators can only look on helplessly and hope their profits were worth it.",
">\n\nThe Republicans in the US have also been almost completely taken over by people who are high on their own supply.",
">\n\nThe people who want this are benefiting from backroom deals. What they want from government is for it to do nothing and keep out of the way. Stupid and weird politicians are perfect for this.",
">\n\nBlue passports though!",
">\n\nGot mine recently and it’s black.",
">\n\nLike the future!",
">\n\nEveryone I know who is pro-brexit has already made their money (I.e. retired). Shows you how selfish the decision was made… l",
">\n\nBoth of my grandfathers voted to leave. They then both died 2 years before we actually left."
] |
>
of course it’s conservatives. a bunch of wankers, ill informed morons on every continent | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?",
">\n\nYeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind",
">\n\nIs anyone surprised? Brexit was fueled by dishonesty and many Brits were fooled into voting for it. \nI still can’t figure out why the British right wingers pushed so hard for Brexit, are they that stupid that they thought they’d be better off? Are they that stupid to honestly believe they wouldn’t need workers from other countries? Did they want to hurt their own economy? \nI know here in the US the right wing touts similar stupidity, but I never really thought any of the leaders believed it, but maybe those at the top are just that stupid.",
">\n\nThey've been lying about and fear mongering over immigrants as a cover for tax cuts for rich people for so long that the people meant to be bamboozled by it have all grown up and now are leaders in conservatism. They were never meant to believe such preposterous lies, but now they do, because current conservative leaders learned it supposedly in good faith from their leaders. The smart ones picked up on the scam and exploited it, and the stupid ones believed it and now govern based on it. Now it's like an AI humanity accidentally created and set into the world. It can't be controlled and can't be shut down, but it can tear apart geopolitical alliances. It's creators can only look on helplessly and hope their profits were worth it.",
">\n\nThe Republicans in the US have also been almost completely taken over by people who are high on their own supply.",
">\n\nThe people who want this are benefiting from backroom deals. What they want from government is for it to do nothing and keep out of the way. Stupid and weird politicians are perfect for this.",
">\n\nBlue passports though!",
">\n\nGot mine recently and it’s black.",
">\n\nLike the future!",
">\n\nEveryone I know who is pro-brexit has already made their money (I.e. retired). Shows you how selfish the decision was made… l",
">\n\nBoth of my grandfathers voted to leave. They then both died 2 years before we actually left.",
">\n\nIve had three grandparents who voted leave and died in an underfunded NHS hospital. The system is dumb"
] |
>
Tory arseholes treating the country like it’s their own business, cunts. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?",
">\n\nYeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind",
">\n\nIs anyone surprised? Brexit was fueled by dishonesty and many Brits were fooled into voting for it. \nI still can’t figure out why the British right wingers pushed so hard for Brexit, are they that stupid that they thought they’d be better off? Are they that stupid to honestly believe they wouldn’t need workers from other countries? Did they want to hurt their own economy? \nI know here in the US the right wing touts similar stupidity, but I never really thought any of the leaders believed it, but maybe those at the top are just that stupid.",
">\n\nThey've been lying about and fear mongering over immigrants as a cover for tax cuts for rich people for so long that the people meant to be bamboozled by it have all grown up and now are leaders in conservatism. They were never meant to believe such preposterous lies, but now they do, because current conservative leaders learned it supposedly in good faith from their leaders. The smart ones picked up on the scam and exploited it, and the stupid ones believed it and now govern based on it. Now it's like an AI humanity accidentally created and set into the world. It can't be controlled and can't be shut down, but it can tear apart geopolitical alliances. It's creators can only look on helplessly and hope their profits were worth it.",
">\n\nThe Republicans in the US have also been almost completely taken over by people who are high on their own supply.",
">\n\nThe people who want this are benefiting from backroom deals. What they want from government is for it to do nothing and keep out of the way. Stupid and weird politicians are perfect for this.",
">\n\nBlue passports though!",
">\n\nGot mine recently and it’s black.",
">\n\nLike the future!",
">\n\nEveryone I know who is pro-brexit has already made their money (I.e. retired). Shows you how selfish the decision was made… l",
">\n\nBoth of my grandfathers voted to leave. They then both died 2 years before we actually left.",
">\n\nIve had three grandparents who voted leave and died in an underfunded NHS hospital. The system is dumb",
">\n\nof course it’s conservatives. a bunch of wankers, ill informed morons on every continent"
] |
>
Failing business run by failed capitalists | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?",
">\n\nYeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind",
">\n\nIs anyone surprised? Brexit was fueled by dishonesty and many Brits were fooled into voting for it. \nI still can’t figure out why the British right wingers pushed so hard for Brexit, are they that stupid that they thought they’d be better off? Are they that stupid to honestly believe they wouldn’t need workers from other countries? Did they want to hurt their own economy? \nI know here in the US the right wing touts similar stupidity, but I never really thought any of the leaders believed it, but maybe those at the top are just that stupid.",
">\n\nThey've been lying about and fear mongering over immigrants as a cover for tax cuts for rich people for so long that the people meant to be bamboozled by it have all grown up and now are leaders in conservatism. They were never meant to believe such preposterous lies, but now they do, because current conservative leaders learned it supposedly in good faith from their leaders. The smart ones picked up on the scam and exploited it, and the stupid ones believed it and now govern based on it. Now it's like an AI humanity accidentally created and set into the world. It can't be controlled and can't be shut down, but it can tear apart geopolitical alliances. It's creators can only look on helplessly and hope their profits were worth it.",
">\n\nThe Republicans in the US have also been almost completely taken over by people who are high on their own supply.",
">\n\nThe people who want this are benefiting from backroom deals. What they want from government is for it to do nothing and keep out of the way. Stupid and weird politicians are perfect for this.",
">\n\nBlue passports though!",
">\n\nGot mine recently and it’s black.",
">\n\nLike the future!",
">\n\nEveryone I know who is pro-brexit has already made their money (I.e. retired). Shows you how selfish the decision was made… l",
">\n\nBoth of my grandfathers voted to leave. They then both died 2 years before we actually left.",
">\n\nIve had three grandparents who voted leave and died in an underfunded NHS hospital. The system is dumb",
">\n\nof course it’s conservatives. a bunch of wankers, ill informed morons on every continent",
">\n\nTory arseholes treating the country like it’s their own business, cunts."
] |
>
Conservative ideas not working in practice? Well, that is surprising. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?",
">\n\nYeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind",
">\n\nIs anyone surprised? Brexit was fueled by dishonesty and many Brits were fooled into voting for it. \nI still can’t figure out why the British right wingers pushed so hard for Brexit, are they that stupid that they thought they’d be better off? Are they that stupid to honestly believe they wouldn’t need workers from other countries? Did they want to hurt their own economy? \nI know here in the US the right wing touts similar stupidity, but I never really thought any of the leaders believed it, but maybe those at the top are just that stupid.",
">\n\nThey've been lying about and fear mongering over immigrants as a cover for tax cuts for rich people for so long that the people meant to be bamboozled by it have all grown up and now are leaders in conservatism. They were never meant to believe such preposterous lies, but now they do, because current conservative leaders learned it supposedly in good faith from their leaders. The smart ones picked up on the scam and exploited it, and the stupid ones believed it and now govern based on it. Now it's like an AI humanity accidentally created and set into the world. It can't be controlled and can't be shut down, but it can tear apart geopolitical alliances. It's creators can only look on helplessly and hope their profits were worth it.",
">\n\nThe Republicans in the US have also been almost completely taken over by people who are high on their own supply.",
">\n\nThe people who want this are benefiting from backroom deals. What they want from government is for it to do nothing and keep out of the way. Stupid and weird politicians are perfect for this.",
">\n\nBlue passports though!",
">\n\nGot mine recently and it’s black.",
">\n\nLike the future!",
">\n\nEveryone I know who is pro-brexit has already made their money (I.e. retired). Shows you how selfish the decision was made… l",
">\n\nBoth of my grandfathers voted to leave. They then both died 2 years before we actually left.",
">\n\nIve had three grandparents who voted leave and died in an underfunded NHS hospital. The system is dumb",
">\n\nof course it’s conservatives. a bunch of wankers, ill informed morons on every continent",
">\n\nTory arseholes treating the country like it’s their own business, cunts.",
">\n\nFailing business run by failed capitalists"
] |
>
Keep voting for tories lads. It’s working out just fine…. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?",
">\n\nYeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind",
">\n\nIs anyone surprised? Brexit was fueled by dishonesty and many Brits were fooled into voting for it. \nI still can’t figure out why the British right wingers pushed so hard for Brexit, are they that stupid that they thought they’d be better off? Are they that stupid to honestly believe they wouldn’t need workers from other countries? Did they want to hurt their own economy? \nI know here in the US the right wing touts similar stupidity, but I never really thought any of the leaders believed it, but maybe those at the top are just that stupid.",
">\n\nThey've been lying about and fear mongering over immigrants as a cover for tax cuts for rich people for so long that the people meant to be bamboozled by it have all grown up and now are leaders in conservatism. They were never meant to believe such preposterous lies, but now they do, because current conservative leaders learned it supposedly in good faith from their leaders. The smart ones picked up on the scam and exploited it, and the stupid ones believed it and now govern based on it. Now it's like an AI humanity accidentally created and set into the world. It can't be controlled and can't be shut down, but it can tear apart geopolitical alliances. It's creators can only look on helplessly and hope their profits were worth it.",
">\n\nThe Republicans in the US have also been almost completely taken over by people who are high on their own supply.",
">\n\nThe people who want this are benefiting from backroom deals. What they want from government is for it to do nothing and keep out of the way. Stupid and weird politicians are perfect for this.",
">\n\nBlue passports though!",
">\n\nGot mine recently and it’s black.",
">\n\nLike the future!",
">\n\nEveryone I know who is pro-brexit has already made their money (I.e. retired). Shows you how selfish the decision was made… l",
">\n\nBoth of my grandfathers voted to leave. They then both died 2 years before we actually left.",
">\n\nIve had three grandparents who voted leave and died in an underfunded NHS hospital. The system is dumb",
">\n\nof course it’s conservatives. a bunch of wankers, ill informed morons on every continent",
">\n\nTory arseholes treating the country like it’s their own business, cunts.",
">\n\nFailing business run by failed capitalists",
">\n\nConservative ideas not working in practice? Well, that is surprising."
] |
>
This is what happens when people let conservatives get the public whipped up into such a frenzy that they vote against their own interests. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?",
">\n\nYeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind",
">\n\nIs anyone surprised? Brexit was fueled by dishonesty and many Brits were fooled into voting for it. \nI still can’t figure out why the British right wingers pushed so hard for Brexit, are they that stupid that they thought they’d be better off? Are they that stupid to honestly believe they wouldn’t need workers from other countries? Did they want to hurt their own economy? \nI know here in the US the right wing touts similar stupidity, but I never really thought any of the leaders believed it, but maybe those at the top are just that stupid.",
">\n\nThey've been lying about and fear mongering over immigrants as a cover for tax cuts for rich people for so long that the people meant to be bamboozled by it have all grown up and now are leaders in conservatism. They were never meant to believe such preposterous lies, but now they do, because current conservative leaders learned it supposedly in good faith from their leaders. The smart ones picked up on the scam and exploited it, and the stupid ones believed it and now govern based on it. Now it's like an AI humanity accidentally created and set into the world. It can't be controlled and can't be shut down, but it can tear apart geopolitical alliances. It's creators can only look on helplessly and hope their profits were worth it.",
">\n\nThe Republicans in the US have also been almost completely taken over by people who are high on their own supply.",
">\n\nThe people who want this are benefiting from backroom deals. What they want from government is for it to do nothing and keep out of the way. Stupid and weird politicians are perfect for this.",
">\n\nBlue passports though!",
">\n\nGot mine recently and it’s black.",
">\n\nLike the future!",
">\n\nEveryone I know who is pro-brexit has already made their money (I.e. retired). Shows you how selfish the decision was made… l",
">\n\nBoth of my grandfathers voted to leave. They then both died 2 years before we actually left.",
">\n\nIve had three grandparents who voted leave and died in an underfunded NHS hospital. The system is dumb",
">\n\nof course it’s conservatives. a bunch of wankers, ill informed morons on every continent",
">\n\nTory arseholes treating the country like it’s their own business, cunts.",
">\n\nFailing business run by failed capitalists",
">\n\nConservative ideas not working in practice? Well, that is surprising.",
">\n\nKeep voting for tories lads. It’s working out just fine…."
] |
>
The unfortunate truth is that humans are fundamentally emotional creatures. Conservatives know this, and leverage it successfully. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?",
">\n\nYeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind",
">\n\nIs anyone surprised? Brexit was fueled by dishonesty and many Brits were fooled into voting for it. \nI still can’t figure out why the British right wingers pushed so hard for Brexit, are they that stupid that they thought they’d be better off? Are they that stupid to honestly believe they wouldn’t need workers from other countries? Did they want to hurt their own economy? \nI know here in the US the right wing touts similar stupidity, but I never really thought any of the leaders believed it, but maybe those at the top are just that stupid.",
">\n\nThey've been lying about and fear mongering over immigrants as a cover for tax cuts for rich people for so long that the people meant to be bamboozled by it have all grown up and now are leaders in conservatism. They were never meant to believe such preposterous lies, but now they do, because current conservative leaders learned it supposedly in good faith from their leaders. The smart ones picked up on the scam and exploited it, and the stupid ones believed it and now govern based on it. Now it's like an AI humanity accidentally created and set into the world. It can't be controlled and can't be shut down, but it can tear apart geopolitical alliances. It's creators can only look on helplessly and hope their profits were worth it.",
">\n\nThe Republicans in the US have also been almost completely taken over by people who are high on their own supply.",
">\n\nThe people who want this are benefiting from backroom deals. What they want from government is for it to do nothing and keep out of the way. Stupid and weird politicians are perfect for this.",
">\n\nBlue passports though!",
">\n\nGot mine recently and it’s black.",
">\n\nLike the future!",
">\n\nEveryone I know who is pro-brexit has already made their money (I.e. retired). Shows you how selfish the decision was made… l",
">\n\nBoth of my grandfathers voted to leave. They then both died 2 years before we actually left.",
">\n\nIve had three grandparents who voted leave and died in an underfunded NHS hospital. The system is dumb",
">\n\nof course it’s conservatives. a bunch of wankers, ill informed morons on every continent",
">\n\nTory arseholes treating the country like it’s their own business, cunts.",
">\n\nFailing business run by failed capitalists",
">\n\nConservative ideas not working in practice? Well, that is surprising.",
">\n\nKeep voting for tories lads. It’s working out just fine….",
">\n\nThis is what happens when people let conservatives get the public whipped up into such a frenzy that they vote against their own interests."
] |
>
Does anyone know what's the public opinion of the British on Brexit at the moment? | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?",
">\n\nYeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind",
">\n\nIs anyone surprised? Brexit was fueled by dishonesty and many Brits were fooled into voting for it. \nI still can’t figure out why the British right wingers pushed so hard for Brexit, are they that stupid that they thought they’d be better off? Are they that stupid to honestly believe they wouldn’t need workers from other countries? Did they want to hurt their own economy? \nI know here in the US the right wing touts similar stupidity, but I never really thought any of the leaders believed it, but maybe those at the top are just that stupid.",
">\n\nThey've been lying about and fear mongering over immigrants as a cover for tax cuts for rich people for so long that the people meant to be bamboozled by it have all grown up and now are leaders in conservatism. They were never meant to believe such preposterous lies, but now they do, because current conservative leaders learned it supposedly in good faith from their leaders. The smart ones picked up on the scam and exploited it, and the stupid ones believed it and now govern based on it. Now it's like an AI humanity accidentally created and set into the world. It can't be controlled and can't be shut down, but it can tear apart geopolitical alliances. It's creators can only look on helplessly and hope their profits were worth it.",
">\n\nThe Republicans in the US have also been almost completely taken over by people who are high on their own supply.",
">\n\nThe people who want this are benefiting from backroom deals. What they want from government is for it to do nothing and keep out of the way. Stupid and weird politicians are perfect for this.",
">\n\nBlue passports though!",
">\n\nGot mine recently and it’s black.",
">\n\nLike the future!",
">\n\nEveryone I know who is pro-brexit has already made their money (I.e. retired). Shows you how selfish the decision was made… l",
">\n\nBoth of my grandfathers voted to leave. They then both died 2 years before we actually left.",
">\n\nIve had three grandparents who voted leave and died in an underfunded NHS hospital. The system is dumb",
">\n\nof course it’s conservatives. a bunch of wankers, ill informed morons on every continent",
">\n\nTory arseholes treating the country like it’s their own business, cunts.",
">\n\nFailing business run by failed capitalists",
">\n\nConservative ideas not working in practice? Well, that is surprising.",
">\n\nKeep voting for tories lads. It’s working out just fine….",
">\n\nThis is what happens when people let conservatives get the public whipped up into such a frenzy that they vote against their own interests.",
">\n\nThe unfortunate truth is that humans are fundamentally emotional creatures. Conservatives know this, and leverage it successfully."
] |
>
I'm British and while there are a subset of the population who will never, ever believe it was a mistake (the UKs equivalent of the fake news crowd that read stuff like the Telegraph and The Daily Mail) the vast majority of people in my experience either feel intense regret or anger at the whole thing. It's really awful.
I'm confident if we could undo it or even just further align ourselves with the EU to minimise the damage we would. But we have a corrupt and sleeze filled party in government who outright refuse to do anything or give the public a say. They have long overstayed their welcome but there's no way to force an early election that is palatable to the general public.
The desire to protest was beaten out of us in the 70's by the conservatives and even as the government pass constant over reaching legislation that gives them unreasonable power and control over people. Including anti protest, anti Union and surveillance legislation and legislation designed to limit people's ability to vote we just sit and take it over and over.
I can't tell if we've lost the ability to tell what is normal or reasonable or if we're just all defeated with 12 years of falling living standards and austerity. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?",
">\n\nYeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind",
">\n\nIs anyone surprised? Brexit was fueled by dishonesty and many Brits were fooled into voting for it. \nI still can’t figure out why the British right wingers pushed so hard for Brexit, are they that stupid that they thought they’d be better off? Are they that stupid to honestly believe they wouldn’t need workers from other countries? Did they want to hurt their own economy? \nI know here in the US the right wing touts similar stupidity, but I never really thought any of the leaders believed it, but maybe those at the top are just that stupid.",
">\n\nThey've been lying about and fear mongering over immigrants as a cover for tax cuts for rich people for so long that the people meant to be bamboozled by it have all grown up and now are leaders in conservatism. They were never meant to believe such preposterous lies, but now they do, because current conservative leaders learned it supposedly in good faith from their leaders. The smart ones picked up on the scam and exploited it, and the stupid ones believed it and now govern based on it. Now it's like an AI humanity accidentally created and set into the world. It can't be controlled and can't be shut down, but it can tear apart geopolitical alliances. It's creators can only look on helplessly and hope their profits were worth it.",
">\n\nThe Republicans in the US have also been almost completely taken over by people who are high on their own supply.",
">\n\nThe people who want this are benefiting from backroom deals. What they want from government is for it to do nothing and keep out of the way. Stupid and weird politicians are perfect for this.",
">\n\nBlue passports though!",
">\n\nGot mine recently and it’s black.",
">\n\nLike the future!",
">\n\nEveryone I know who is pro-brexit has already made their money (I.e. retired). Shows you how selfish the decision was made… l",
">\n\nBoth of my grandfathers voted to leave. They then both died 2 years before we actually left.",
">\n\nIve had three grandparents who voted leave and died in an underfunded NHS hospital. The system is dumb",
">\n\nof course it’s conservatives. a bunch of wankers, ill informed morons on every continent",
">\n\nTory arseholes treating the country like it’s their own business, cunts.",
">\n\nFailing business run by failed capitalists",
">\n\nConservative ideas not working in practice? Well, that is surprising.",
">\n\nKeep voting for tories lads. It’s working out just fine….",
">\n\nThis is what happens when people let conservatives get the public whipped up into such a frenzy that they vote against their own interests.",
">\n\nThe unfortunate truth is that humans are fundamentally emotional creatures. Conservatives know this, and leverage it successfully.",
">\n\nDoes anyone know what's the public opinion of the British on Brexit at the moment?"
] |
>
I'm confident if we could undo it or even just further align ourselves with the EU to minimise the damage we would. But we have a corrupt and sleeze filled party in government who outright refuse to do anything or give the public a say.
But I can't help but wonder: why would they take us back? We were a shitty member who threatened to throw our toys out the pram whenever we didn't get our own way, the only reason we were tolerated was because we balanced France and Germany and had a lot of financial power houses.
Well it turns out that the EU isn't so unbalanced without us anyway and the Netherlands can take all London's banks no problem. So they don't need a flakey nation state that won't accept the Euro and is probably going to lose half its territory to secession anyway. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?",
">\n\nYeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind",
">\n\nIs anyone surprised? Brexit was fueled by dishonesty and many Brits were fooled into voting for it. \nI still can’t figure out why the British right wingers pushed so hard for Brexit, are they that stupid that they thought they’d be better off? Are they that stupid to honestly believe they wouldn’t need workers from other countries? Did they want to hurt their own economy? \nI know here in the US the right wing touts similar stupidity, but I never really thought any of the leaders believed it, but maybe those at the top are just that stupid.",
">\n\nThey've been lying about and fear mongering over immigrants as a cover for tax cuts for rich people for so long that the people meant to be bamboozled by it have all grown up and now are leaders in conservatism. They were never meant to believe such preposterous lies, but now they do, because current conservative leaders learned it supposedly in good faith from their leaders. The smart ones picked up on the scam and exploited it, and the stupid ones believed it and now govern based on it. Now it's like an AI humanity accidentally created and set into the world. It can't be controlled and can't be shut down, but it can tear apart geopolitical alliances. It's creators can only look on helplessly and hope their profits were worth it.",
">\n\nThe Republicans in the US have also been almost completely taken over by people who are high on their own supply.",
">\n\nThe people who want this are benefiting from backroom deals. What they want from government is for it to do nothing and keep out of the way. Stupid and weird politicians are perfect for this.",
">\n\nBlue passports though!",
">\n\nGot mine recently and it’s black.",
">\n\nLike the future!",
">\n\nEveryone I know who is pro-brexit has already made their money (I.e. retired). Shows you how selfish the decision was made… l",
">\n\nBoth of my grandfathers voted to leave. They then both died 2 years before we actually left.",
">\n\nIve had three grandparents who voted leave and died in an underfunded NHS hospital. The system is dumb",
">\n\nof course it’s conservatives. a bunch of wankers, ill informed morons on every continent",
">\n\nTory arseholes treating the country like it’s their own business, cunts.",
">\n\nFailing business run by failed capitalists",
">\n\nConservative ideas not working in practice? Well, that is surprising.",
">\n\nKeep voting for tories lads. It’s working out just fine….",
">\n\nThis is what happens when people let conservatives get the public whipped up into such a frenzy that they vote against their own interests.",
">\n\nThe unfortunate truth is that humans are fundamentally emotional creatures. Conservatives know this, and leverage it successfully.",
">\n\nDoes anyone know what's the public opinion of the British on Brexit at the moment?",
">\n\nI'm British and while there are a subset of the population who will never, ever believe it was a mistake (the UKs equivalent of the fake news crowd that read stuff like the Telegraph and The Daily Mail) the vast majority of people in my experience either feel intense regret or anger at the whole thing. It's really awful.\nI'm confident if we could undo it or even just further align ourselves with the EU to minimise the damage we would. But we have a corrupt and sleeze filled party in government who outright refuse to do anything or give the public a say. They have long overstayed their welcome but there's no way to force an early election that is palatable to the general public. \nThe desire to protest was beaten out of us in the 70's by the conservatives and even as the government pass constant over reaching legislation that gives them unreasonable power and control over people. Including anti protest, anti Union and surveillance legislation and legislation designed to limit people's ability to vote we just sit and take it over and over.\nI can't tell if we've lost the ability to tell what is normal or reasonable or if we're just all defeated with 12 years of falling living standards and austerity."
] |
>
We were a net contributor while in the EU. While we whined and complained we ultimately did still provide a lot for the EU and strengthened it just like many countries do.
It would only be a boost for EU and UK if we rejoined but if we did somehow rejoin we'd never have the privileges we enjoyed and had as a member before. We'd likely be just like any other country that joins and have to join the Euro unless we somehow convinced them that sticking with the £ was a positive for them too (£ is somehow still a fairly strong reserve currency in several countries) | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?",
">\n\nYeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind",
">\n\nIs anyone surprised? Brexit was fueled by dishonesty and many Brits were fooled into voting for it. \nI still can’t figure out why the British right wingers pushed so hard for Brexit, are they that stupid that they thought they’d be better off? Are they that stupid to honestly believe they wouldn’t need workers from other countries? Did they want to hurt their own economy? \nI know here in the US the right wing touts similar stupidity, but I never really thought any of the leaders believed it, but maybe those at the top are just that stupid.",
">\n\nThey've been lying about and fear mongering over immigrants as a cover for tax cuts for rich people for so long that the people meant to be bamboozled by it have all grown up and now are leaders in conservatism. They were never meant to believe such preposterous lies, but now they do, because current conservative leaders learned it supposedly in good faith from their leaders. The smart ones picked up on the scam and exploited it, and the stupid ones believed it and now govern based on it. Now it's like an AI humanity accidentally created and set into the world. It can't be controlled and can't be shut down, but it can tear apart geopolitical alliances. It's creators can only look on helplessly and hope their profits were worth it.",
">\n\nThe Republicans in the US have also been almost completely taken over by people who are high on their own supply.",
">\n\nThe people who want this are benefiting from backroom deals. What they want from government is for it to do nothing and keep out of the way. Stupid and weird politicians are perfect for this.",
">\n\nBlue passports though!",
">\n\nGot mine recently and it’s black.",
">\n\nLike the future!",
">\n\nEveryone I know who is pro-brexit has already made their money (I.e. retired). Shows you how selfish the decision was made… l",
">\n\nBoth of my grandfathers voted to leave. They then both died 2 years before we actually left.",
">\n\nIve had three grandparents who voted leave and died in an underfunded NHS hospital. The system is dumb",
">\n\nof course it’s conservatives. a bunch of wankers, ill informed morons on every continent",
">\n\nTory arseholes treating the country like it’s their own business, cunts.",
">\n\nFailing business run by failed capitalists",
">\n\nConservative ideas not working in practice? Well, that is surprising.",
">\n\nKeep voting for tories lads. It’s working out just fine….",
">\n\nThis is what happens when people let conservatives get the public whipped up into such a frenzy that they vote against their own interests.",
">\n\nThe unfortunate truth is that humans are fundamentally emotional creatures. Conservatives know this, and leverage it successfully.",
">\n\nDoes anyone know what's the public opinion of the British on Brexit at the moment?",
">\n\nI'm British and while there are a subset of the population who will never, ever believe it was a mistake (the UKs equivalent of the fake news crowd that read stuff like the Telegraph and The Daily Mail) the vast majority of people in my experience either feel intense regret or anger at the whole thing. It's really awful.\nI'm confident if we could undo it or even just further align ourselves with the EU to minimise the damage we would. But we have a corrupt and sleeze filled party in government who outright refuse to do anything or give the public a say. They have long overstayed their welcome but there's no way to force an early election that is palatable to the general public. \nThe desire to protest was beaten out of us in the 70's by the conservatives and even as the government pass constant over reaching legislation that gives them unreasonable power and control over people. Including anti protest, anti Union and surveillance legislation and legislation designed to limit people's ability to vote we just sit and take it over and over.\nI can't tell if we've lost the ability to tell what is normal or reasonable or if we're just all defeated with 12 years of falling living standards and austerity.",
">\n\n\nI'm confident if we could undo it or even just further align ourselves with the EU to minimise the damage we would. But we have a corrupt and sleeze filled party in government who outright refuse to do anything or give the public a say.\n\nBut I can't help but wonder: why would they take us back? We were a shitty member who threatened to throw our toys out the pram whenever we didn't get our own way, the only reason we were tolerated was because we balanced France and Germany and had a lot of financial power houses.\nWell it turns out that the EU isn't so unbalanced without us anyway and the Netherlands can take all London's banks no problem. So they don't need a flakey nation state that won't accept the Euro and is probably going to lose half its territory to secession anyway."
] |
>
We also did a lot of damage to other countries in the EU (including ourselves) while being a member - for example by blocking EU efforts to tariff chinese steel. Which ultimately led to almost a collapse of european (and british) steel production. Yes, of course, in pure monetary terms we were a net contributor, but it's not like we didn't have an immensely favourable deal and got "more back" than we invested. We were not "the good guys" in the EU.
And of course it's not just "not likely", it's absolutely guaranteed that we'd not get the same/similar terms that we had before if we'd rejoin. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?",
">\n\nYeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind",
">\n\nIs anyone surprised? Brexit was fueled by dishonesty and many Brits were fooled into voting for it. \nI still can’t figure out why the British right wingers pushed so hard for Brexit, are they that stupid that they thought they’d be better off? Are they that stupid to honestly believe they wouldn’t need workers from other countries? Did they want to hurt their own economy? \nI know here in the US the right wing touts similar stupidity, but I never really thought any of the leaders believed it, but maybe those at the top are just that stupid.",
">\n\nThey've been lying about and fear mongering over immigrants as a cover for tax cuts for rich people for so long that the people meant to be bamboozled by it have all grown up and now are leaders in conservatism. They were never meant to believe such preposterous lies, but now they do, because current conservative leaders learned it supposedly in good faith from their leaders. The smart ones picked up on the scam and exploited it, and the stupid ones believed it and now govern based on it. Now it's like an AI humanity accidentally created and set into the world. It can't be controlled and can't be shut down, but it can tear apart geopolitical alliances. It's creators can only look on helplessly and hope their profits were worth it.",
">\n\nThe Republicans in the US have also been almost completely taken over by people who are high on their own supply.",
">\n\nThe people who want this are benefiting from backroom deals. What they want from government is for it to do nothing and keep out of the way. Stupid and weird politicians are perfect for this.",
">\n\nBlue passports though!",
">\n\nGot mine recently and it’s black.",
">\n\nLike the future!",
">\n\nEveryone I know who is pro-brexit has already made their money (I.e. retired). Shows you how selfish the decision was made… l",
">\n\nBoth of my grandfathers voted to leave. They then both died 2 years before we actually left.",
">\n\nIve had three grandparents who voted leave and died in an underfunded NHS hospital. The system is dumb",
">\n\nof course it’s conservatives. a bunch of wankers, ill informed morons on every continent",
">\n\nTory arseholes treating the country like it’s their own business, cunts.",
">\n\nFailing business run by failed capitalists",
">\n\nConservative ideas not working in practice? Well, that is surprising.",
">\n\nKeep voting for tories lads. It’s working out just fine….",
">\n\nThis is what happens when people let conservatives get the public whipped up into such a frenzy that they vote against their own interests.",
">\n\nThe unfortunate truth is that humans are fundamentally emotional creatures. Conservatives know this, and leverage it successfully.",
">\n\nDoes anyone know what's the public opinion of the British on Brexit at the moment?",
">\n\nI'm British and while there are a subset of the population who will never, ever believe it was a mistake (the UKs equivalent of the fake news crowd that read stuff like the Telegraph and The Daily Mail) the vast majority of people in my experience either feel intense regret or anger at the whole thing. It's really awful.\nI'm confident if we could undo it or even just further align ourselves with the EU to minimise the damage we would. But we have a corrupt and sleeze filled party in government who outright refuse to do anything or give the public a say. They have long overstayed their welcome but there's no way to force an early election that is palatable to the general public. \nThe desire to protest was beaten out of us in the 70's by the conservatives and even as the government pass constant over reaching legislation that gives them unreasonable power and control over people. Including anti protest, anti Union and surveillance legislation and legislation designed to limit people's ability to vote we just sit and take it over and over.\nI can't tell if we've lost the ability to tell what is normal or reasonable or if we're just all defeated with 12 years of falling living standards and austerity.",
">\n\n\nI'm confident if we could undo it or even just further align ourselves with the EU to minimise the damage we would. But we have a corrupt and sleeze filled party in government who outright refuse to do anything or give the public a say.\n\nBut I can't help but wonder: why would they take us back? We were a shitty member who threatened to throw our toys out the pram whenever we didn't get our own way, the only reason we were tolerated was because we balanced France and Germany and had a lot of financial power houses.\nWell it turns out that the EU isn't so unbalanced without us anyway and the Netherlands can take all London's banks no problem. So they don't need a flakey nation state that won't accept the Euro and is probably going to lose half its territory to secession anyway.",
">\n\nWe were a net contributor while in the EU. While we whined and complained we ultimately did still provide a lot for the EU and strengthened it just like many countries do.\nIt would only be a boost for EU and UK if we rejoined but if we did somehow rejoin we'd never have the privileges we enjoyed and had as a member before. We'd likely be just like any other country that joins and have to join the Euro unless we somehow convinced them that sticking with the £ was a positive for them too (£ is somehow still a fairly strong reserve currency in several countries)"
] |
>
Putin's plan worked wonders in USA and UK. It is also working fine in the Balkans - see Serbia, Montenegro, and the Croatian president saying Crimea is Russian.
Social media does wonders if you are enough of a manipulative fascist cunt. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?",
">\n\nYeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind",
">\n\nIs anyone surprised? Brexit was fueled by dishonesty and many Brits were fooled into voting for it. \nI still can’t figure out why the British right wingers pushed so hard for Brexit, are they that stupid that they thought they’d be better off? Are they that stupid to honestly believe they wouldn’t need workers from other countries? Did they want to hurt their own economy? \nI know here in the US the right wing touts similar stupidity, but I never really thought any of the leaders believed it, but maybe those at the top are just that stupid.",
">\n\nThey've been lying about and fear mongering over immigrants as a cover for tax cuts for rich people for so long that the people meant to be bamboozled by it have all grown up and now are leaders in conservatism. They were never meant to believe such preposterous lies, but now they do, because current conservative leaders learned it supposedly in good faith from their leaders. The smart ones picked up on the scam and exploited it, and the stupid ones believed it and now govern based on it. Now it's like an AI humanity accidentally created and set into the world. It can't be controlled and can't be shut down, but it can tear apart geopolitical alliances. It's creators can only look on helplessly and hope their profits were worth it.",
">\n\nThe Republicans in the US have also been almost completely taken over by people who are high on their own supply.",
">\n\nThe people who want this are benefiting from backroom deals. What they want from government is for it to do nothing and keep out of the way. Stupid and weird politicians are perfect for this.",
">\n\nBlue passports though!",
">\n\nGot mine recently and it’s black.",
">\n\nLike the future!",
">\n\nEveryone I know who is pro-brexit has already made their money (I.e. retired). Shows you how selfish the decision was made… l",
">\n\nBoth of my grandfathers voted to leave. They then both died 2 years before we actually left.",
">\n\nIve had three grandparents who voted leave and died in an underfunded NHS hospital. The system is dumb",
">\n\nof course it’s conservatives. a bunch of wankers, ill informed morons on every continent",
">\n\nTory arseholes treating the country like it’s their own business, cunts.",
">\n\nFailing business run by failed capitalists",
">\n\nConservative ideas not working in practice? Well, that is surprising.",
">\n\nKeep voting for tories lads. It’s working out just fine….",
">\n\nThis is what happens when people let conservatives get the public whipped up into such a frenzy that they vote against their own interests.",
">\n\nThe unfortunate truth is that humans are fundamentally emotional creatures. Conservatives know this, and leverage it successfully.",
">\n\nDoes anyone know what's the public opinion of the British on Brexit at the moment?",
">\n\nI'm British and while there are a subset of the population who will never, ever believe it was a mistake (the UKs equivalent of the fake news crowd that read stuff like the Telegraph and The Daily Mail) the vast majority of people in my experience either feel intense regret or anger at the whole thing. It's really awful.\nI'm confident if we could undo it or even just further align ourselves with the EU to minimise the damage we would. But we have a corrupt and sleeze filled party in government who outright refuse to do anything or give the public a say. They have long overstayed their welcome but there's no way to force an early election that is palatable to the general public. \nThe desire to protest was beaten out of us in the 70's by the conservatives and even as the government pass constant over reaching legislation that gives them unreasonable power and control over people. Including anti protest, anti Union and surveillance legislation and legislation designed to limit people's ability to vote we just sit and take it over and over.\nI can't tell if we've lost the ability to tell what is normal or reasonable or if we're just all defeated with 12 years of falling living standards and austerity.",
">\n\n\nI'm confident if we could undo it or even just further align ourselves with the EU to minimise the damage we would. But we have a corrupt and sleeze filled party in government who outright refuse to do anything or give the public a say.\n\nBut I can't help but wonder: why would they take us back? We were a shitty member who threatened to throw our toys out the pram whenever we didn't get our own way, the only reason we were tolerated was because we balanced France and Germany and had a lot of financial power houses.\nWell it turns out that the EU isn't so unbalanced without us anyway and the Netherlands can take all London's banks no problem. So they don't need a flakey nation state that won't accept the Euro and is probably going to lose half its territory to secession anyway.",
">\n\nWe were a net contributor while in the EU. While we whined and complained we ultimately did still provide a lot for the EU and strengthened it just like many countries do.\nIt would only be a boost for EU and UK if we rejoined but if we did somehow rejoin we'd never have the privileges we enjoyed and had as a member before. We'd likely be just like any other country that joins and have to join the Euro unless we somehow convinced them that sticking with the £ was a positive for them too (£ is somehow still a fairly strong reserve currency in several countries)",
">\n\nWe also did a lot of damage to other countries in the EU (including ourselves) while being a member - for example by blocking EU efforts to tariff chinese steel. Which ultimately led to almost a collapse of european (and british) steel production. Yes, of course, in pure monetary terms we were a net contributor, but it's not like we didn't have an immensely favourable deal and got \"more back\" than we invested. We were not \"the good guys\" in the EU. \nAnd of course it's not just \"not likely\", it's absolutely guaranteed that we'd not get the same/similar terms that we had before if we'd rejoin."
] |
>
I feel bad for all the Brits that voted against Brexit and were helpless when it happened anyway. | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?",
">\n\nYeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind",
">\n\nIs anyone surprised? Brexit was fueled by dishonesty and many Brits were fooled into voting for it. \nI still can’t figure out why the British right wingers pushed so hard for Brexit, are they that stupid that they thought they’d be better off? Are they that stupid to honestly believe they wouldn’t need workers from other countries? Did they want to hurt their own economy? \nI know here in the US the right wing touts similar stupidity, but I never really thought any of the leaders believed it, but maybe those at the top are just that stupid.",
">\n\nThey've been lying about and fear mongering over immigrants as a cover for tax cuts for rich people for so long that the people meant to be bamboozled by it have all grown up and now are leaders in conservatism. They were never meant to believe such preposterous lies, but now they do, because current conservative leaders learned it supposedly in good faith from their leaders. The smart ones picked up on the scam and exploited it, and the stupid ones believed it and now govern based on it. Now it's like an AI humanity accidentally created and set into the world. It can't be controlled and can't be shut down, but it can tear apart geopolitical alliances. It's creators can only look on helplessly and hope their profits were worth it.",
">\n\nThe Republicans in the US have also been almost completely taken over by people who are high on their own supply.",
">\n\nThe people who want this are benefiting from backroom deals. What they want from government is for it to do nothing and keep out of the way. Stupid and weird politicians are perfect for this.",
">\n\nBlue passports though!",
">\n\nGot mine recently and it’s black.",
">\n\nLike the future!",
">\n\nEveryone I know who is pro-brexit has already made their money (I.e. retired). Shows you how selfish the decision was made… l",
">\n\nBoth of my grandfathers voted to leave. They then both died 2 years before we actually left.",
">\n\nIve had three grandparents who voted leave and died in an underfunded NHS hospital. The system is dumb",
">\n\nof course it’s conservatives. a bunch of wankers, ill informed morons on every continent",
">\n\nTory arseholes treating the country like it’s their own business, cunts.",
">\n\nFailing business run by failed capitalists",
">\n\nConservative ideas not working in practice? Well, that is surprising.",
">\n\nKeep voting for tories lads. It’s working out just fine….",
">\n\nThis is what happens when people let conservatives get the public whipped up into such a frenzy that they vote against their own interests.",
">\n\nThe unfortunate truth is that humans are fundamentally emotional creatures. Conservatives know this, and leverage it successfully.",
">\n\nDoes anyone know what's the public opinion of the British on Brexit at the moment?",
">\n\nI'm British and while there are a subset of the population who will never, ever believe it was a mistake (the UKs equivalent of the fake news crowd that read stuff like the Telegraph and The Daily Mail) the vast majority of people in my experience either feel intense regret or anger at the whole thing. It's really awful.\nI'm confident if we could undo it or even just further align ourselves with the EU to minimise the damage we would. But we have a corrupt and sleeze filled party in government who outright refuse to do anything or give the public a say. They have long overstayed their welcome but there's no way to force an early election that is palatable to the general public. \nThe desire to protest was beaten out of us in the 70's by the conservatives and even as the government pass constant over reaching legislation that gives them unreasonable power and control over people. Including anti protest, anti Union and surveillance legislation and legislation designed to limit people's ability to vote we just sit and take it over and over.\nI can't tell if we've lost the ability to tell what is normal or reasonable or if we're just all defeated with 12 years of falling living standards and austerity.",
">\n\n\nI'm confident if we could undo it or even just further align ourselves with the EU to minimise the damage we would. But we have a corrupt and sleeze filled party in government who outright refuse to do anything or give the public a say.\n\nBut I can't help but wonder: why would they take us back? We were a shitty member who threatened to throw our toys out the pram whenever we didn't get our own way, the only reason we were tolerated was because we balanced France and Germany and had a lot of financial power houses.\nWell it turns out that the EU isn't so unbalanced without us anyway and the Netherlands can take all London's banks no problem. So they don't need a flakey nation state that won't accept the Euro and is probably going to lose half its territory to secession anyway.",
">\n\nWe were a net contributor while in the EU. While we whined and complained we ultimately did still provide a lot for the EU and strengthened it just like many countries do.\nIt would only be a boost for EU and UK if we rejoined but if we did somehow rejoin we'd never have the privileges we enjoyed and had as a member before. We'd likely be just like any other country that joins and have to join the Euro unless we somehow convinced them that sticking with the £ was a positive for them too (£ is somehow still a fairly strong reserve currency in several countries)",
">\n\nWe also did a lot of damage to other countries in the EU (including ourselves) while being a member - for example by blocking EU efforts to tariff chinese steel. Which ultimately led to almost a collapse of european (and british) steel production. Yes, of course, in pure monetary terms we were a net contributor, but it's not like we didn't have an immensely favourable deal and got \"more back\" than we invested. We were not \"the good guys\" in the EU. \nAnd of course it's not just \"not likely\", it's absolutely guaranteed that we'd not get the same/similar terms that we had before if we'd rejoin.",
">\n\nPutin's plan worked wonders in USA and UK. It is also working fine in the Balkans - see Serbia, Montenegro, and the Croatian president saying Crimea is Russian. \nSocial media does wonders if you are enough of a manipulative fascist cunt."
] |
>
Thanks, it's nice to see people remember that 49% of us aren't braindead | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?",
">\n\nYeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind",
">\n\nIs anyone surprised? Brexit was fueled by dishonesty and many Brits were fooled into voting for it. \nI still can’t figure out why the British right wingers pushed so hard for Brexit, are they that stupid that they thought they’d be better off? Are they that stupid to honestly believe they wouldn’t need workers from other countries? Did they want to hurt their own economy? \nI know here in the US the right wing touts similar stupidity, but I never really thought any of the leaders believed it, but maybe those at the top are just that stupid.",
">\n\nThey've been lying about and fear mongering over immigrants as a cover for tax cuts for rich people for so long that the people meant to be bamboozled by it have all grown up and now are leaders in conservatism. They were never meant to believe such preposterous lies, but now they do, because current conservative leaders learned it supposedly in good faith from their leaders. The smart ones picked up on the scam and exploited it, and the stupid ones believed it and now govern based on it. Now it's like an AI humanity accidentally created and set into the world. It can't be controlled and can't be shut down, but it can tear apart geopolitical alliances. It's creators can only look on helplessly and hope their profits were worth it.",
">\n\nThe Republicans in the US have also been almost completely taken over by people who are high on their own supply.",
">\n\nThe people who want this are benefiting from backroom deals. What they want from government is for it to do nothing and keep out of the way. Stupid and weird politicians are perfect for this.",
">\n\nBlue passports though!",
">\n\nGot mine recently and it’s black.",
">\n\nLike the future!",
">\n\nEveryone I know who is pro-brexit has already made their money (I.e. retired). Shows you how selfish the decision was made… l",
">\n\nBoth of my grandfathers voted to leave. They then both died 2 years before we actually left.",
">\n\nIve had three grandparents who voted leave and died in an underfunded NHS hospital. The system is dumb",
">\n\nof course it’s conservatives. a bunch of wankers, ill informed morons on every continent",
">\n\nTory arseholes treating the country like it’s their own business, cunts.",
">\n\nFailing business run by failed capitalists",
">\n\nConservative ideas not working in practice? Well, that is surprising.",
">\n\nKeep voting for tories lads. It’s working out just fine….",
">\n\nThis is what happens when people let conservatives get the public whipped up into such a frenzy that they vote against their own interests.",
">\n\nThe unfortunate truth is that humans are fundamentally emotional creatures. Conservatives know this, and leverage it successfully.",
">\n\nDoes anyone know what's the public opinion of the British on Brexit at the moment?",
">\n\nI'm British and while there are a subset of the population who will never, ever believe it was a mistake (the UKs equivalent of the fake news crowd that read stuff like the Telegraph and The Daily Mail) the vast majority of people in my experience either feel intense regret or anger at the whole thing. It's really awful.\nI'm confident if we could undo it or even just further align ourselves with the EU to minimise the damage we would. But we have a corrupt and sleeze filled party in government who outright refuse to do anything or give the public a say. They have long overstayed their welcome but there's no way to force an early election that is palatable to the general public. \nThe desire to protest was beaten out of us in the 70's by the conservatives and even as the government pass constant over reaching legislation that gives them unreasonable power and control over people. Including anti protest, anti Union and surveillance legislation and legislation designed to limit people's ability to vote we just sit and take it over and over.\nI can't tell if we've lost the ability to tell what is normal or reasonable or if we're just all defeated with 12 years of falling living standards and austerity.",
">\n\n\nI'm confident if we could undo it or even just further align ourselves with the EU to minimise the damage we would. But we have a corrupt and sleeze filled party in government who outright refuse to do anything or give the public a say.\n\nBut I can't help but wonder: why would they take us back? We were a shitty member who threatened to throw our toys out the pram whenever we didn't get our own way, the only reason we were tolerated was because we balanced France and Germany and had a lot of financial power houses.\nWell it turns out that the EU isn't so unbalanced without us anyway and the Netherlands can take all London's banks no problem. So they don't need a flakey nation state that won't accept the Euro and is probably going to lose half its territory to secession anyway.",
">\n\nWe were a net contributor while in the EU. While we whined and complained we ultimately did still provide a lot for the EU and strengthened it just like many countries do.\nIt would only be a boost for EU and UK if we rejoined but if we did somehow rejoin we'd never have the privileges we enjoyed and had as a member before. We'd likely be just like any other country that joins and have to join the Euro unless we somehow convinced them that sticking with the £ was a positive for them too (£ is somehow still a fairly strong reserve currency in several countries)",
">\n\nWe also did a lot of damage to other countries in the EU (including ourselves) while being a member - for example by blocking EU efforts to tariff chinese steel. Which ultimately led to almost a collapse of european (and british) steel production. Yes, of course, in pure monetary terms we were a net contributor, but it's not like we didn't have an immensely favourable deal and got \"more back\" than we invested. We were not \"the good guys\" in the EU. \nAnd of course it's not just \"not likely\", it's absolutely guaranteed that we'd not get the same/similar terms that we had before if we'd rejoin.",
">\n\nPutin's plan worked wonders in USA and UK. It is also working fine in the Balkans - see Serbia, Montenegro, and the Croatian president saying Crimea is Russian. \nSocial media does wonders if you are enough of a manipulative fascist cunt.",
">\n\nI feel bad for all the Brits that voted against Brexit and were helpless when it happened anyway."
] |
>
How do they calculate that | [
"Where’s old mate Nigel Farrage?",
">\n\nThat was the Best part. He led them out and then just quit like \"not my problem anymore\".",
">\n\nHe's vocal on Twitter about the problems we are facing, the problems he had a huge hand in creating. He's such a fucking dick.",
">\n\nHAHAHAHAHA thats fucking rich. so how does Nigel frame his displeasure??\n\"I can't believe the stupidity of this government! Why do we have no trade agreements yet? who would think BREXIT was a good idea?? I was never pro-BREXIT. I voted to stay\"",
">\n\nNo he seems to have settled into the 'well the government haven't done Brexit right' argument. If he had been in charge it would have been done properly. \nThe man's a cunt. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he is the ultimate expression of the British cunt.",
">\n\nMy apprehension against simply bestowing him the title of \"Ultimate Expression of the British Cunt\" is not due to a lacking resume, but due to all the competition he faces.",
">\n\nAye, Normal Island has a fuckin cavalcade of cunts to pick from. Just an endless rotation of the most rubbish bastards imaginable.",
">\n\nCavalcade of Cunts new band name called it!",
">\n\nBritain struggling under trade sanctions applied by Britain.",
">\n\nThe only country in human history to democratically vote to impose economic sanctions on itself.",
">\n\nIt's kind of worse than that, since it was a referendum and not actually a legally binding vote.\nEdit: Ok, I'm getting a lot of replies asking things like, \"What if the vote margin was bigger?\" or \"Should the government ignore the will of the people?\" Here is my reply to those kinds of questions.\nA non-binding referendum is, legally speaking, not binding. It can therefore be assumed that such a referendum must have some utility beyond a mandate made to the government. Can we layfolk think of one? What about a process to solicit feedback in the form of personal responses to a spitball proposal? What about a way to ask the public if it's worthwhile committing to research into a particular proposal when said research would utilize significant government resources and incur significant costs (to be covered by taxpayers)?\nWe folk who choose not to govern should, I think, have the expectation of those among us who do choose to govern that they... well... govern. As such, I, a voter, should be able to confidently assume that a non-binding referendum really ought not result in government action. Why? Because this is a non-binding referendum and pointedly not a policy vote. I should be able to distill from this that if \"leave\" wins (indicating a slight interest among the populace to change the status quo), that the government should proceed by committing resources toward the production of a report--a report which is designed to provide educating details on the expected impact of such a deviation from the status quo on the people and on the government. I should expect to see some period of time, probably lasting months, wherein the government conducts substantial research, then hands the culmination of that research over to the media. I should see reports about that research on the news, online, in the papers. It should be the talk of the town.\nFollowing a period of perhaps even up to an entire year after the publication of such a report, I expect a decision from the government. Either present a policy vote if the matter is a true toss-up and could be at least equal parts good and bad in general or, if the general feeling of the report is either massively beneficial to everyone involved or massively detrimental, hand off a policy vote to the legislature (if good) or run a massive ad campaign about how absolutely batshit crazy of an idea it actually turns out to be and do nothing.\nThe government is built on the concept of law. A voter absolutely should not expect a referendum that is blatantly designated not binding to be acted on by the government, not by any margin, and especially not be a three point margin. And the leaders of the government, who, by the way, are the leaders of one of the most powerful governments and organizations in the entire world, should be trusted, at least to the extent that it applies to the prospect of national suicide, to do the right thing and step back from the ledge after looking and seeing exactly how far the fall actually is.\nWhat actually happened was an absolutely pathetic and miserable abdication of duty. The government did not function whatsoever. It fell into the trap of bureaucracy and did what the referendum dictated despite not being bound by the results just because a slight margin said to do it, with nowhere near a complete appreciation for the actual consequences or even how deep the UK's fingers really were in the EU cookie jar. The buffoons rubber stamped Brexit.\nYou might as well pack up the entire government and call it quits when the government starts rubber stamping decisions with international implications and nothing but bad implications for their own freaking country and economy. THEY are in charge. THEY are responsible for running the show. And THEYYYYY are the ones who drafted and submitted a NON-BINDING referendum. Dear Lord, THEY should have known and leveraged the non-binding nature of it because if they presume to be bound by it, what is the point of explicitly indicating the referendum is non-binding?",
">\n\nCorrect. As a Swiss citizen who is familiar with direct democracy, I know too well that our politicians bend the rules in their favor as much as possible if the people voted for something really stupid.\nIf this had happened in Switzerland, nobody would have given two flying fcks about a glorified opinion poll (which is what the Brexit referendum exactly was) and would have moved on, waiting until the people found something else to complain about.",
">\n\nIn Ireland, we had a similar case with the Lisbon treaty. It was rejected by a narrow margin so the referendum was held again with some refinement. It's madness to enact something with such a small margin when in any election you'll get something like 5% protest voting.",
">\n\nIn Irish referendums we vote on the specific language that is proposed to amend our constitution. The Brexit vote was: pick smiley EU face or sad EU face. Cameron could have avoided all of this by offering the public the choice of type of exit, none of the options would have won a majority, and remain would have won the plurality. He fucked up so bad. Their last string of PMs have destroyed the country.",
">\n\nTories, eh. Last time they were in power this long was Thatcher years, and everyone I know either pretends those years never happened or talks about it like the dark days, especially the repercussions on now.",
">\n\nThatcher is the UK's Reagan lol.\nbunch of bags of evil",
">\n\nI don't think the parallels are a coincidence, both parties pretend to be about the economy but they just mean the wealthy and since that line doesn't play well with the masses, they throw in racism and religion. Unfortunately Russia is very good at influencing the wealthy with money and then spamming the media with the help of Murdoch. Brexit and Trump seem to be symptoms of the same disease.",
">\n\nany time you see \"the economy\" replace it with \"rich people's yacht money\" and marvel at how accurate it is",
">\n\nBut the NHS got better right? /s",
">\n\nYep that 350million extra is paying dividends right now...\n/s",
">\n\nNobody ever talks about this. The NHS is rapidly falling apart and not one politician in this country has ever asked where the £350m went.\nBrexit is the elephant in the room that no one can ever mention. It was an unmitigated disaster in every possible way yet everyone is too afraid to mention it in a negative light.\nA lot of people - maybe a majority, gave the extra money for the NHS as their reason for voting to leave and now they bury their heads in the sand. Couple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.",
">\n\n\nCouple this with the fact that the death of the NHS is a deliberate aim of the Tory party and there's no hope for improvement.\n\nWhat is it with conservatives hating health care? I'm in the U.S., and conservatives here have taught their followers to fight against affordable healthcare. Even just the phrase \"affordable healthcare\" sends conservatives in the US into a full rage. It's insane.",
">\n\nIts because of the freedom having free healthcare provides.\nIf like in the US your healthcare is directly tied to your employer.... as a worker you are tied to the work.\nIf you want to leave for a different job or God forbid try to create a business or work for yourself, you will have no healthcare.\nIt's about control and eroding the power of the working class.\nEven just a little bit more control over the worker allows the businesses to use that power to gain more power etc etc.",
">\n\nYes, we understand why the elites oppose it.\nBy why the fuck does Joe down the street fall inline with it, it's asinine!",
">\n\nBecause they don’t want to pay taxes and are actively stupid.",
">\n\nAnd they're temporarily poor. One day, they'll be rich like that.",
">\n\nFry, why are you cheering? You aren't rich.\nTrue, but someday I might be, and then people like me better watch their step.",
">\n\nI remember when Bernie Sanders was running a few years ago and it was insane catching young people, across the whole spectrum, professional adults, middle class, saying \"taxing the rich 1% seems a bit too much, if I was rich I wouldn't like it\".\nGenerational brainwashing working perfectly.",
">\n\nBrexit had already cost the country more inside 3 years of the vote, than the entirety of our payments into the EU over our 45 year membership.\nInterestingly, the blackhole in the finances discussed last year was around the same as the estimated losses to the wider economy through Brexit. \nWhat a wonderful time we've been having. Entering adulthood in 2008 and experiencing all these 'once-in-a-lifetime' events that have seen me and my generation, and those that will come after me, horrifically hobbled by incompetence, idiocy, and robber barons in government.",
">\n\nThe silver lining is of course that the entire shitshow put an effective end to any and all leaving the EU ideas. \nBe it France, Italy or elsewhere, the entire sentiment just disappeared - it just doesn't make any sense and even the dimmest clown at the party noticed as much. \nI guess EU citizens have to thank the UK for that one at least!",
">\n\nShit, you're right. The \"leave\" movement is dead here in Baguetteland O_o\nThanks for your unjust sacrifice, pals :(",
">\n\nI'm only half joking when I ask, please can you and your fellow Baguettians teach we flaccid wet-rock dwelling Roast-Beefs how to protest against our government effectively please?\nSo many of us secretly, or not so secretly, are in awe of the French ability to grind the country to a halt unapologetically any time the government dicks around. Or even mentions it might be planning to dick around.\nAll we do here is moan and open the fridge every few hours in case any unaffordable new food has magically appeared inside it.",
">\n\nSame in Canada. We just apologize for everything and hope for the best.",
">\n\nYeah but you're not taking into account the 365 gazillion pounds they save for the NHS every year, right? Think that's how much it was? Saw it on a bus once.",
">\n\n£350 million a week. Which is about £18 billion a year. So we're saving... oh, dang.",
">\n\nHow do they come up with these numbers?",
">\n\nIt was all the money that the UK was sending the EU parliament but they completely ignored all the money coming the other way.",
">\n\nThat bus will go down in history as an example of false campaigning changing the course of history. \nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.",
">\n\n\nI had friends who would have voted Remain, but saw things like that and believed it meant we would fund the NHS better which most Britains want.\n\nI'm sorry but your friend is a gullible fool.\nWhat has confused me most about Brexit is who look as Farage, Johnson, et al and thinks \"yes, yes these people seem trustworthy and like they have my interests at heart\". They're all caricature snake oil salesmen.",
">\n\nI’ll get downvoted for saying it, but ultimately every single person I know who voted Leave did it for racist reasons. Some were more subtle than others and blamed ‘immigration’, but then you have my brother who did it to ‘get rid of all the [racist slur for Middle Eastern Asians].’ He could not comprehend that the people he wanted to go were UK citizens and wouldn’t be deported, and their relatives weren’t even in the EU and so wouldn’t be affected by brexit. \nMy dad, who also voted leave because of ‘immigration’ had the audacity to complain when the two Romanian lads working for him left the uk. By his own admission, they were the best workers he has ever had. It’s honestly fucking baffling how stupid these people are.",
">\n\nMy favourite was the owner of a trucking company who voted to leave and then was shocked at loosing a ton of business on EU freight. I mean, they really didnt things through did they?",
">\n\nOr the fisherman who voted leave complaining their fish was going rotten sitting in trucks at the border or that lots of their catch is sold to the EU because Brits don't eat it. But now they can't find buyers because of EU laws for non EU members",
">\n\nAs an American I was confused by this. I saw an article from the UK where someone said how unfair it was for the EU to enforce its policies since the EU benefitted more from trade with the UK than the other way around. I felt like it was a matter of this person wanted the benefit without any of the requirements.",
">\n\nGood guy UK, showing to the less intelligent EU citizens why the EU matters. \nA sacrifice we will not forget.",
">\n\nAs if anti EU people would even accept that as an example.\nIt's never about what was proven right by actual fact. Those people only argue based on the most shallow understanding of the topic and an unwillingness to learn.\nIf \"But if my country pays more to the EU than it receives so it's a bad deal\" is the epitome of somebodies ability to understand global issues then it won't help. Heck the pro brexit people still wait for the reduced payments to the EU to fix all issues over night.",
">\n\nThe Brexit shitshow has been accompanied by a notable decline in anti-EU rhetoric in other countries. I highly doubt that’s a coincidence.",
">\n\nIt's like those guys complaining about leaving their wives. Until one of them does and quickly realizes how much his wife was holding up. The other guys take note and complain a little less.",
">\n\nThe UK is the 40something old overweight guy, who's left his wife to get a \"better deal\", and is now single living in a bedsit and lonely.",
">\n\n“Hey Europe, I sleep in a racing car, do you?”\n“I sleep in a big bed with my wife.”",
">\n\nI like the idea of the European Union as some kind of big single-market orgy.",
">\n\nThe UK left the orgy and realized it has to get itself off all on its own now",
">\n\nI was wondering how they worked out the gap. From the article:\n\nHowever, it is clear that UK economic performance started to diverge from the rest of the Group of Seven following the 2016 vote to leave the EU, and has widened since. \nThe underperformance is partly explained by business investment as firms put spending decisions on hold because of uncertainty about what life outside the EU would mean. Though some of that caution is dissipating, the UK has a long way to go to close the gap with its major peers. At about 9% of GDP, business investment lags the Group of Seven average of 13%.",
">\n\nThe BBC reported this morning that the IMF is predicting that the UK is the only G7 country to have its economy shrink in 2023. Astonishing.",
">\n\nIt's even more grim, Russia will do better than the UK!",
">\n\nAdmittedly this is on a year by year percentage basis. Their economy tanked so much last year its starting from a much lower bar. Also there's not much left to sanction other than fuel, which Europe still can't do without.",
">\n\nThis has got to be the best example of an own goal in all of history. Unbelievable.",
">\n\nWell, not for everyone. A few people are giggling into their brandy snifters right now.",
">\n\nI've been watching \"the Crown\" with my wife, lately.\nIt's really shocking to see how little the UK has changed, if you look at the ruling class. There really is a different \"class\", wether you are in the Tories or in Labour.\nI mean, I live in the Netherlands, and sure, we have also \"the haves and the have-nots\", but nothing like the way it is taken voor granted like in the UK.\nIt is really, well, desturbing to watch Rishi Sunak explain why the wages really cannot go up...",
">\n\nThe Netherlands never really had a pronounced aristocracy. They were there of course, but they weren't as intertwined with politics as they are in the UK.\nI believe it has much to do with the fact that for the majority of Dutch history, people have had political parties dedicated to keep away aristocracy from politics (Staatsgezinden), ironically succeeding by giving the aristocrats a monarchy and a representative government within the span of 15 years.\nThe Staatsgezinden also had aristocrats as part of their ranks, but at least they shared a view that power should go to those best qualified.\nI also believe a lot of it caused our flattened hierarchy in the workspace and a cultural aversion to any form of authority.",
">\n\nThe funny thing is though, in recent years when I've been paying attention, the house of Lords has almost been a last line defence not passing some of the tories more extreme laws. I hate the concept of them, but I don't hate them",
">\n\nI'm actually kind of fine with the concept of a second house that isn't completely beholden to the popular vote in theory - but the seats shouldn't be inherited and ideally the people we're making Lords and Ladies would be leaders in their particular field/experts, not some dude who happened to write a few good musicals years ago.",
">\n\nI think a tenured second chamber is a good choice for doing what it needs to do.\nI also think hereditary privilege is horrible, and crony-stuffing the lords is too. \nI've often though the trick would be 3 selection streams:\n\n\nAppointment through professional bodies. E.g. the Law Society, the GMC, etc. Maybe also religious bodies, or other organisations sufficiently impactful. (So the Church of England could have a \"lord\", but so would the Muslim Council)\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street. Maybe with an 'opt in' of some kind. \n\n\nAppointment via some sort of proportional representation from the political parties. So whilst a 'fringe' party might never have influence in the Commons, they would still have some political voice. \n\n\nSay a third from each, with a ten-year tenure, appointed on a rolling basis (10% per year maybe?)",
">\n\n\nAppointment by jury selection. Literally random person off the street\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\nAppointment through the professional bodies would be good, however think we'd need some kind of system in place to ensure they don't essentially become lobbyists with actual power - I wouldn't exactly trust a bunch of CEO's to vote on say a financial expert who knows what he's doing but is in favour of closing loopholes/taxing corporations more over a useful idiot who'll go along with their interests for a fancy title and payday, y;know?",
">\n\n\nDefinitely not a fan of this one. Voting is already meant to be our form of representation, and tbh I wouldn't trust most randomers to be informed enough to actually make the decisions (and I include myself in that).\n\nI am a big fan of sortition despite being under no illusions about how stupid the average person can be. IMO the trick is to decide what the actual responsibilities of each chamber are.\nHaving random people isn't bad if their main purpose is to be a sanity check.\nPlus, I think more positions in government should also be filled somewhat randomly (though from qualified applicants) to reduce their attractiveness to people addicted to power and popularity.",
">\n\nHow sad is it that Brexit is soo bad, all the anti-EU platforms across Europe suddenly went quiet.🤦🏾♂️",
">\n\nBrexit is the seriously best outcome for the EU. The UK would have remained a destabilizing factor and lots if right and left wing nutcases would be able to keep threatening to leave. All that is gone now thanks to the chaos Brexit created. And there’s a good chance the UK will align itself more with Europe, or at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.",
">\n\n\nor at least pieces of it if England is too stubborn to bend.\n\nI've got to defend the average English person here and I'll preface this with I'm a Scottish independence supporter so I'm not particularly enamoured to the U.K as an institution these days.\nBar a couple of counties the majority of English people would probably vote themselves back in tomorrow if they could. \nThe issue is Westminster and the people that generally end up leading it, sure the Brexit vote itself happened primarily because of English votes but most of those have either learnt their lesson or are no longer around.",
">\n\nEven if the UK voted tomorrow to say they wanted back in, would the EU let them? Seems like a risk they could just turn around and do this again once a few years have passed and the next Farage comes around.",
">\n\nI imagine that option will be there eventually, but probably not for a long time. Leaving was a huge timesink for both the UK and EU - countries can't be led to believe that they can just hop out to test the waters then rejoin if it doesn't work out.\nOf course, we will almost certainly have to join under the same terms as everyone else and will probably have to make a sincere commitment to adopt the Euro, which might actually be enough to put voters off... Depending on how bad things get between now and the opportunity to rejoin",
">\n\nWhat exactly is wrong w switching to the Euro? Foreigner asking",
">\n\nNothing, just people won't want to make concessions to the EU.",
">\n\n‘Are ya winning, lad?’",
">\n\n\"are ya winning son?\"\n\"no dad, your entire generation made sure of that\"",
">\n\nNot sure if I should laugh or cry.",
">\n\nDont worry lads, Commonwealth also means Commondebt.",
">\n\nAnd the Queen will hold the Commonwealth together... Oh",
">\n\nQueen consort Camela?",
">\n\nNo, Freddy Mercury",
">\n\nHonestly would not mind Freddy being queen",
">\n\nShould have just cancelled Brexit, given me 1 billion and saved 99.",
">\n\nA billion a year every year!",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year, with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nThe Bloomberg study acknowledges that calculating how much output has been lost due to Brexit is neither \"Easy nor precise,\" not least because leaving the EU coincided with the seismic disruptions caused by the coronavirus pandemic.\nThe UK economy continues to be blighted by shortages of workers - and Brexit has played no small part.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Brexit^#1 trade^#2 economy^#3 leave^#4 workers^#5",
">\n\nShould never have been a 50%+1 vote for something so serious.\nAn extensive criminal investigation of global proportions should be undertaken. Cambridge Analytica, Nigel Farage et al.",
">\n\nA non-binding referendum should never have been made into national policy.",
">\n\nTo be fair, it wasn't so much the referendum that made it real, it was the 2019 Tory landslide. \nIt elevated some of the most stupid, unserious, incapable, and corrupt people to the forefront of politics off the back of pure populism, and in the midst of some unique electoral circumstances — including an incompetent and unpopular opposition, the recent purging of every sane-ish Tory from the party, and a chaotic Parliament that, while I think portrayed the House at its very best, appeared to most voters as being an utter shambles.\nI think referendums are bad and our constitution is ill-suited to their use, but my bigger concern would always be focused on never allowing the circumstances of 2019 to ever happen again.",
">\n\nAdd to that the Tory cronyism that in 2016 was laying the groundwork for such things as the right-wing takeover of the BBC, who to this day barely mention the B-word or its negatives in any of its media.",
">\n\nTory cronyism and incompetence has eaten away at all our public institutions. From Cameron's abolition of the quangos through Truss's perversion of the EHRC and on to Johnson's insidious impact on Parliament, on Government, on the police forces, courts, the NHS, DfID, and seemingly every public institution, the Tories' destructive influence can be seen everywhere.\nI mean, seriously, can anyone point to a public institution that's in good shape? Even the one that appeals to their main priority, the Border Force, seems in a dangerous state of mismanagement.",
">\n\nI thought this was always the plan (by foreign powers); to destabilize any and all Western unity and power.",
">\n\nTrue, iirc Brexit had a lot of Russian backing",
">\n\nLook, I know I agree with some of your sentiment here but as someone in the UK I want to make this massive fucking distinction right now. Of course Russia had a part to play, we know that. But this cannot be wiped away as some evil genius Russian plot that caught out Britian unaware. \nRussia used very well established avenues of corruption to make sure this happened. British, 100 percent full british people, politicians and commentators gladly spurted this nonsense, not KGB agents. \nBoris Johnson is playing Churchill in his former runs to Kiev but he took the money, he knew who Putin, Russia and others were and what they did and he gladly took the money and him and his cronies will still fight tooth and nail for Brexit due to how it personally benefitted them. That's the root of the issue, how easy it was for Russia to influence it not the fact that they did. \nBritian is corrupt and full of horrible, evil, self serving politicians who were in bed with Russia until February, no doubt part of the reason for the strong anti Russian stance outwardly. \nJust like Trump this was not a perfectly executed evil plot that caught the west unaware. This was a well researched plot that was willingly gobbled up by people on the other side. \nI make this distinction because it is important to know the grasps of fascism in western nations and not to sweep these incidents under the tug as a one off",
">\n\nI am very aware, as a fellow British citizen, but with the amount of control the tories have over the press not to mention the 40% of the population who barely think for themselves and blindly vote for them, I don't see how we can truly change short of mass rioting. They're even trying to stop peaceful protests with these new anti protest laws, leaving violence as the only option, but that's not going to happen because as a nation we are content to sit back and let someone else handle it, which always ends in failure and corruption. Brexit is just the best example of Britain's incompetency in the last 40 odd years.",
">\n\nExtra £350m/week promised, extra -£1,923m/week delivered. \nGood fkn job Boris and his band of bozos.",
">\n\nThey made a lot of money off of it, I'm sure.",
">\n\nRead this story for free, as a thanks to Redditors discussing our article on r/worldnews \nBy Andrew Atkinson\nBrexit is costing the UK economy £100 billion a year ($124 billion), with the effects spanning everything from business investment to the ability of companies to hire workers.\nAn analysis by Bloomberg Economics three years after Britain left the European Union paints a bleak picture of the damage done by the way the split has been implemented by the Conservative government. \nEconomists Ana Andrade and Dan Hanson reckon the economy is 4% smaller than it might have been, with business investment lagging significantly and the shortfall in EU workers widening.",
">\n\nA book called Mindf*ck by Christopher Wiley details the Russian hack of Brexit and the Trump election. There were massive hearings from whistle-blowers that built the system, but it is so embarrassing for the UK and US to admit being hacked and devastated by Russia that nobody will ever know or pay and nothing will get fixed.",
">\n\nPrint that on a bus!",
">\n\nPaid for by the NHS",
">\n\nI guess a few disaster capitalists are doing really well out of it, there was even a book written about how to make money out of such turbulent times, it was written by some chap called Mogg, apparently his son is some kind of politician.",
">\n\nI heard that Mogg chap runs an Irish investment firm.\nHe can't be a politician otherwise we'd have a sizable conflict of interest!?",
">\n\nYeah but we're saving 350m a week, per year that's... Oh wait nevermind",
">\n\nIs anyone surprised? Brexit was fueled by dishonesty and many Brits were fooled into voting for it. \nI still can’t figure out why the British right wingers pushed so hard for Brexit, are they that stupid that they thought they’d be better off? Are they that stupid to honestly believe they wouldn’t need workers from other countries? Did they want to hurt their own economy? \nI know here in the US the right wing touts similar stupidity, but I never really thought any of the leaders believed it, but maybe those at the top are just that stupid.",
">\n\nThey've been lying about and fear mongering over immigrants as a cover for tax cuts for rich people for so long that the people meant to be bamboozled by it have all grown up and now are leaders in conservatism. They were never meant to believe such preposterous lies, but now they do, because current conservative leaders learned it supposedly in good faith from their leaders. The smart ones picked up on the scam and exploited it, and the stupid ones believed it and now govern based on it. Now it's like an AI humanity accidentally created and set into the world. It can't be controlled and can't be shut down, but it can tear apart geopolitical alliances. It's creators can only look on helplessly and hope their profits were worth it.",
">\n\nThe Republicans in the US have also been almost completely taken over by people who are high on their own supply.",
">\n\nThe people who want this are benefiting from backroom deals. What they want from government is for it to do nothing and keep out of the way. Stupid and weird politicians are perfect for this.",
">\n\nBlue passports though!",
">\n\nGot mine recently and it’s black.",
">\n\nLike the future!",
">\n\nEveryone I know who is pro-brexit has already made their money (I.e. retired). Shows you how selfish the decision was made… l",
">\n\nBoth of my grandfathers voted to leave. They then both died 2 years before we actually left.",
">\n\nIve had three grandparents who voted leave and died in an underfunded NHS hospital. The system is dumb",
">\n\nof course it’s conservatives. a bunch of wankers, ill informed morons on every continent",
">\n\nTory arseholes treating the country like it’s their own business, cunts.",
">\n\nFailing business run by failed capitalists",
">\n\nConservative ideas not working in practice? Well, that is surprising.",
">\n\nKeep voting for tories lads. It’s working out just fine….",
">\n\nThis is what happens when people let conservatives get the public whipped up into such a frenzy that they vote against their own interests.",
">\n\nThe unfortunate truth is that humans are fundamentally emotional creatures. Conservatives know this, and leverage it successfully.",
">\n\nDoes anyone know what's the public opinion of the British on Brexit at the moment?",
">\n\nI'm British and while there are a subset of the population who will never, ever believe it was a mistake (the UKs equivalent of the fake news crowd that read stuff like the Telegraph and The Daily Mail) the vast majority of people in my experience either feel intense regret or anger at the whole thing. It's really awful.\nI'm confident if we could undo it or even just further align ourselves with the EU to minimise the damage we would. But we have a corrupt and sleeze filled party in government who outright refuse to do anything or give the public a say. They have long overstayed their welcome but there's no way to force an early election that is palatable to the general public. \nThe desire to protest was beaten out of us in the 70's by the conservatives and even as the government pass constant over reaching legislation that gives them unreasonable power and control over people. Including anti protest, anti Union and surveillance legislation and legislation designed to limit people's ability to vote we just sit and take it over and over.\nI can't tell if we've lost the ability to tell what is normal or reasonable or if we're just all defeated with 12 years of falling living standards and austerity.",
">\n\n\nI'm confident if we could undo it or even just further align ourselves with the EU to minimise the damage we would. But we have a corrupt and sleeze filled party in government who outright refuse to do anything or give the public a say.\n\nBut I can't help but wonder: why would they take us back? We were a shitty member who threatened to throw our toys out the pram whenever we didn't get our own way, the only reason we were tolerated was because we balanced France and Germany and had a lot of financial power houses.\nWell it turns out that the EU isn't so unbalanced without us anyway and the Netherlands can take all London's banks no problem. So they don't need a flakey nation state that won't accept the Euro and is probably going to lose half its territory to secession anyway.",
">\n\nWe were a net contributor while in the EU. While we whined and complained we ultimately did still provide a lot for the EU and strengthened it just like many countries do.\nIt would only be a boost for EU and UK if we rejoined but if we did somehow rejoin we'd never have the privileges we enjoyed and had as a member before. We'd likely be just like any other country that joins and have to join the Euro unless we somehow convinced them that sticking with the £ was a positive for them too (£ is somehow still a fairly strong reserve currency in several countries)",
">\n\nWe also did a lot of damage to other countries in the EU (including ourselves) while being a member - for example by blocking EU efforts to tariff chinese steel. Which ultimately led to almost a collapse of european (and british) steel production. Yes, of course, in pure monetary terms we were a net contributor, but it's not like we didn't have an immensely favourable deal and got \"more back\" than we invested. We were not \"the good guys\" in the EU. \nAnd of course it's not just \"not likely\", it's absolutely guaranteed that we'd not get the same/similar terms that we had before if we'd rejoin.",
">\n\nPutin's plan worked wonders in USA and UK. It is also working fine in the Balkans - see Serbia, Montenegro, and the Croatian president saying Crimea is Russian. \nSocial media does wonders if you are enough of a manipulative fascist cunt.",
">\n\nI feel bad for all the Brits that voted against Brexit and were helpless when it happened anyway.",
">\n\nThanks, it's nice to see people remember that 49% of us aren't braindead"
] |
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