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If a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence. | [
"I don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr.",
">\n\nAnd of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of \"their rights and feelings\", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil.",
">\n\nConservatives are an existential to humanity.",
">\n\nReally now?",
">\n\nNow lol.",
">\n\nThe guy he attacked is likely to die of natural causes before this nut gets out of prison.",
">\n\nMan, he's going to go into a deep dark hole forever",
">\n\nSo GOP now means Gang of Politicians?",
">\n\nThe worst part might be that to the GOP it looks like it worked. Pelosi stepped down from Democratic leadership. It doesn't matter if that is what she was planning on doing anyway, they see it as violence furthering their political goals.",
">\n\nThis is what happens when you protext the class bully. Bad enough Trump became President, but the establishment protected him and even defended him once he got the nomination, but was no longer treated as the outsider he was, and the outsider he stayed all through his Presidency.",
">\n\nLet's see how proud he is with 20 years in jail.",
">\n\nI don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,"
] |
>
I thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts | [
"I don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr.",
">\n\nAnd of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of \"their rights and feelings\", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil.",
">\n\nConservatives are an existential to humanity.",
">\n\nReally now?",
">\n\nNow lol.",
">\n\nThe guy he attacked is likely to die of natural causes before this nut gets out of prison.",
">\n\nMan, he's going to go into a deep dark hole forever",
">\n\nSo GOP now means Gang of Politicians?",
">\n\nThe worst part might be that to the GOP it looks like it worked. Pelosi stepped down from Democratic leadership. It doesn't matter if that is what she was planning on doing anyway, they see it as violence furthering their political goals.",
">\n\nThis is what happens when you protext the class bully. Bad enough Trump became President, but the establishment protected him and even defended him once he got the nomination, but was no longer treated as the outsider he was, and the outsider he stayed all through his Presidency.",
">\n\nLet's see how proud he is with 20 years in jail.",
">\n\nI don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence."
] |
>
This moron looks like a real life Angry Bird.
Imagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers. | [
"I don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr.",
">\n\nAnd of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of \"their rights and feelings\", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil.",
">\n\nConservatives are an existential to humanity.",
">\n\nReally now?",
">\n\nNow lol.",
">\n\nThe guy he attacked is likely to die of natural causes before this nut gets out of prison.",
">\n\nMan, he's going to go into a deep dark hole forever",
">\n\nSo GOP now means Gang of Politicians?",
">\n\nThe worst part might be that to the GOP it looks like it worked. Pelosi stepped down from Democratic leadership. It doesn't matter if that is what she was planning on doing anyway, they see it as violence furthering their political goals.",
">\n\nThis is what happens when you protext the class bully. Bad enough Trump became President, but the establishment protected him and even defended him once he got the nomination, but was no longer treated as the outsider he was, and the outsider he stayed all through his Presidency.",
">\n\nLet's see how proud he is with 20 years in jail.",
">\n\nI don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts"
] |
>
he'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison | [
"I don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr.",
">\n\nAnd of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of \"their rights and feelings\", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil.",
">\n\nConservatives are an existential to humanity.",
">\n\nReally now?",
">\n\nNow lol.",
">\n\nThe guy he attacked is likely to die of natural causes before this nut gets out of prison.",
">\n\nMan, he's going to go into a deep dark hole forever",
">\n\nSo GOP now means Gang of Politicians?",
">\n\nThe worst part might be that to the GOP it looks like it worked. Pelosi stepped down from Democratic leadership. It doesn't matter if that is what she was planning on doing anyway, they see it as violence furthering their political goals.",
">\n\nThis is what happens when you protext the class bully. Bad enough Trump became President, but the establishment protected him and even defended him once he got the nomination, but was no longer treated as the outsider he was, and the outsider he stayed all through his Presidency.",
">\n\nLet's see how proud he is with 20 years in jail.",
">\n\nI don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers."
] |
>
This guy is dying to become a martyr. | [
"I don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr.",
">\n\nAnd of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of \"their rights and feelings\", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil.",
">\n\nConservatives are an existential to humanity.",
">\n\nReally now?",
">\n\nNow lol.",
">\n\nThe guy he attacked is likely to die of natural causes before this nut gets out of prison.",
">\n\nMan, he's going to go into a deep dark hole forever",
">\n\nSo GOP now means Gang of Politicians?",
">\n\nThe worst part might be that to the GOP it looks like it worked. Pelosi stepped down from Democratic leadership. It doesn't matter if that is what she was planning on doing anyway, they see it as violence furthering their political goals.",
">\n\nThis is what happens when you protext the class bully. Bad enough Trump became President, but the establishment protected him and even defended him once he got the nomination, but was no longer treated as the outsider he was, and the outsider he stayed all through his Presidency.",
">\n\nLet's see how proud he is with 20 years in jail.",
">\n\nI don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison"
] |
>
And of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of "their rights and feelings", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil. | [
"I don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr.",
">\n\nAnd of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of \"their rights and feelings\", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil.",
">\n\nConservatives are an existential to humanity.",
">\n\nReally now?",
">\n\nNow lol.",
">\n\nThe guy he attacked is likely to die of natural causes before this nut gets out of prison.",
">\n\nMan, he's going to go into a deep dark hole forever",
">\n\nSo GOP now means Gang of Politicians?",
">\n\nThe worst part might be that to the GOP it looks like it worked. Pelosi stepped down from Democratic leadership. It doesn't matter if that is what she was planning on doing anyway, they see it as violence furthering their political goals.",
">\n\nThis is what happens when you protext the class bully. Bad enough Trump became President, but the establishment protected him and even defended him once he got the nomination, but was no longer treated as the outsider he was, and the outsider he stayed all through his Presidency.",
">\n\nLet's see how proud he is with 20 years in jail.",
">\n\nI don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr."
] |
>
Conservatives are an existential to humanity. | [
"I don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr.",
">\n\nAnd of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of \"their rights and feelings\", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil.",
">\n\nConservatives are an existential to humanity.",
">\n\nReally now?",
">\n\nNow lol.",
">\n\nThe guy he attacked is likely to die of natural causes before this nut gets out of prison.",
">\n\nMan, he's going to go into a deep dark hole forever",
">\n\nSo GOP now means Gang of Politicians?",
">\n\nThe worst part might be that to the GOP it looks like it worked. Pelosi stepped down from Democratic leadership. It doesn't matter if that is what she was planning on doing anyway, they see it as violence furthering their political goals.",
">\n\nThis is what happens when you protext the class bully. Bad enough Trump became President, but the establishment protected him and even defended him once he got the nomination, but was no longer treated as the outsider he was, and the outsider he stayed all through his Presidency.",
">\n\nLet's see how proud he is with 20 years in jail.",
">\n\nI don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr.",
">\n\nAnd of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of \"their rights and feelings\", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil."
] |
>
Really now? | [
"I don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr.",
">\n\nAnd of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of \"their rights and feelings\", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil.",
">\n\nConservatives are an existential to humanity.",
">\n\nReally now?",
">\n\nNow lol.",
">\n\nThe guy he attacked is likely to die of natural causes before this nut gets out of prison.",
">\n\nMan, he's going to go into a deep dark hole forever",
">\n\nSo GOP now means Gang of Politicians?",
">\n\nThe worst part might be that to the GOP it looks like it worked. Pelosi stepped down from Democratic leadership. It doesn't matter if that is what she was planning on doing anyway, they see it as violence furthering their political goals.",
">\n\nThis is what happens when you protext the class bully. Bad enough Trump became President, but the establishment protected him and even defended him once he got the nomination, but was no longer treated as the outsider he was, and the outsider he stayed all through his Presidency.",
">\n\nLet's see how proud he is with 20 years in jail.",
">\n\nI don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr.",
">\n\nAnd of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of \"their rights and feelings\", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil.",
">\n\nConservatives are an existential to humanity."
] |
>
Now lol. | [
"I don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr.",
">\n\nAnd of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of \"their rights and feelings\", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil.",
">\n\nConservatives are an existential to humanity.",
">\n\nReally now?",
">\n\nNow lol.",
">\n\nThe guy he attacked is likely to die of natural causes before this nut gets out of prison.",
">\n\nMan, he's going to go into a deep dark hole forever",
">\n\nSo GOP now means Gang of Politicians?",
">\n\nThe worst part might be that to the GOP it looks like it worked. Pelosi stepped down from Democratic leadership. It doesn't matter if that is what she was planning on doing anyway, they see it as violence furthering their political goals.",
">\n\nThis is what happens when you protext the class bully. Bad enough Trump became President, but the establishment protected him and even defended him once he got the nomination, but was no longer treated as the outsider he was, and the outsider he stayed all through his Presidency.",
">\n\nLet's see how proud he is with 20 years in jail.",
">\n\nI don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr.",
">\n\nAnd of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of \"their rights and feelings\", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil.",
">\n\nConservatives are an existential to humanity.",
">\n\nReally now?"
] |
>
The guy he attacked is likely to die of natural causes before this nut gets out of prison. | [
"I don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr.",
">\n\nAnd of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of \"their rights and feelings\", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil.",
">\n\nConservatives are an existential to humanity.",
">\n\nReally now?",
">\n\nNow lol.",
">\n\nThe guy he attacked is likely to die of natural causes before this nut gets out of prison.",
">\n\nMan, he's going to go into a deep dark hole forever",
">\n\nSo GOP now means Gang of Politicians?",
">\n\nThe worst part might be that to the GOP it looks like it worked. Pelosi stepped down from Democratic leadership. It doesn't matter if that is what she was planning on doing anyway, they see it as violence furthering their political goals.",
">\n\nThis is what happens when you protext the class bully. Bad enough Trump became President, but the establishment protected him and even defended him once he got the nomination, but was no longer treated as the outsider he was, and the outsider he stayed all through his Presidency.",
">\n\nLet's see how proud he is with 20 years in jail.",
">\n\nI don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr.",
">\n\nAnd of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of \"their rights and feelings\", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil.",
">\n\nConservatives are an existential to humanity.",
">\n\nReally now?",
">\n\nNow lol."
] |
>
Man, he's going to go into a deep dark hole forever | [
"I don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr.",
">\n\nAnd of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of \"their rights and feelings\", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil.",
">\n\nConservatives are an existential to humanity.",
">\n\nReally now?",
">\n\nNow lol.",
">\n\nThe guy he attacked is likely to die of natural causes before this nut gets out of prison.",
">\n\nMan, he's going to go into a deep dark hole forever",
">\n\nSo GOP now means Gang of Politicians?",
">\n\nThe worst part might be that to the GOP it looks like it worked. Pelosi stepped down from Democratic leadership. It doesn't matter if that is what she was planning on doing anyway, they see it as violence furthering their political goals.",
">\n\nThis is what happens when you protext the class bully. Bad enough Trump became President, but the establishment protected him and even defended him once he got the nomination, but was no longer treated as the outsider he was, and the outsider he stayed all through his Presidency.",
">\n\nLet's see how proud he is with 20 years in jail.",
">\n\nI don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr.",
">\n\nAnd of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of \"their rights and feelings\", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil.",
">\n\nConservatives are an existential to humanity.",
">\n\nReally now?",
">\n\nNow lol.",
">\n\nThe guy he attacked is likely to die of natural causes before this nut gets out of prison."
] |
>
So GOP now means Gang of Politicians? | [
"I don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr.",
">\n\nAnd of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of \"their rights and feelings\", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil.",
">\n\nConservatives are an existential to humanity.",
">\n\nReally now?",
">\n\nNow lol.",
">\n\nThe guy he attacked is likely to die of natural causes before this nut gets out of prison.",
">\n\nMan, he's going to go into a deep dark hole forever",
">\n\nSo GOP now means Gang of Politicians?",
">\n\nThe worst part might be that to the GOP it looks like it worked. Pelosi stepped down from Democratic leadership. It doesn't matter if that is what she was planning on doing anyway, they see it as violence furthering their political goals.",
">\n\nThis is what happens when you protext the class bully. Bad enough Trump became President, but the establishment protected him and even defended him once he got the nomination, but was no longer treated as the outsider he was, and the outsider he stayed all through his Presidency.",
">\n\nLet's see how proud he is with 20 years in jail.",
">\n\nI don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr.",
">\n\nAnd of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of \"their rights and feelings\", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil.",
">\n\nConservatives are an existential to humanity.",
">\n\nReally now?",
">\n\nNow lol.",
">\n\nThe guy he attacked is likely to die of natural causes before this nut gets out of prison.",
">\n\nMan, he's going to go into a deep dark hole forever"
] |
>
The worst part might be that to the GOP it looks like it worked. Pelosi stepped down from Democratic leadership. It doesn't matter if that is what she was planning on doing anyway, they see it as violence furthering their political goals. | [
"I don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr.",
">\n\nAnd of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of \"their rights and feelings\", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil.",
">\n\nConservatives are an existential to humanity.",
">\n\nReally now?",
">\n\nNow lol.",
">\n\nThe guy he attacked is likely to die of natural causes before this nut gets out of prison.",
">\n\nMan, he's going to go into a deep dark hole forever",
">\n\nSo GOP now means Gang of Politicians?",
">\n\nThe worst part might be that to the GOP it looks like it worked. Pelosi stepped down from Democratic leadership. It doesn't matter if that is what she was planning on doing anyway, they see it as violence furthering their political goals.",
">\n\nThis is what happens when you protext the class bully. Bad enough Trump became President, but the establishment protected him and even defended him once he got the nomination, but was no longer treated as the outsider he was, and the outsider he stayed all through his Presidency.",
">\n\nLet's see how proud he is with 20 years in jail.",
">\n\nI don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr.",
">\n\nAnd of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of \"their rights and feelings\", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil.",
">\n\nConservatives are an existential to humanity.",
">\n\nReally now?",
">\n\nNow lol.",
">\n\nThe guy he attacked is likely to die of natural causes before this nut gets out of prison.",
">\n\nMan, he's going to go into a deep dark hole forever",
">\n\nSo GOP now means Gang of Politicians?"
] |
>
This is what happens when you protext the class bully. Bad enough Trump became President, but the establishment protected him and even defended him once he got the nomination, but was no longer treated as the outsider he was, and the outsider he stayed all through his Presidency. | [
"I don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr.",
">\n\nAnd of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of \"their rights and feelings\", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil.",
">\n\nConservatives are an existential to humanity.",
">\n\nReally now?",
">\n\nNow lol.",
">\n\nThe guy he attacked is likely to die of natural causes before this nut gets out of prison.",
">\n\nMan, he's going to go into a deep dark hole forever",
">\n\nSo GOP now means Gang of Politicians?",
">\n\nThe worst part might be that to the GOP it looks like it worked. Pelosi stepped down from Democratic leadership. It doesn't matter if that is what she was planning on doing anyway, they see it as violence furthering their political goals.",
">\n\nThis is what happens when you protext the class bully. Bad enough Trump became President, but the establishment protected him and even defended him once he got the nomination, but was no longer treated as the outsider he was, and the outsider he stayed all through his Presidency.",
">\n\nLet's see how proud he is with 20 years in jail.",
">\n\nI don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr.",
">\n\nAnd of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of \"their rights and feelings\", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil.",
">\n\nConservatives are an existential to humanity.",
">\n\nReally now?",
">\n\nNow lol.",
">\n\nThe guy he attacked is likely to die of natural causes before this nut gets out of prison.",
">\n\nMan, he's going to go into a deep dark hole forever",
">\n\nSo GOP now means Gang of Politicians?",
">\n\nThe worst part might be that to the GOP it looks like it worked. Pelosi stepped down from Democratic leadership. It doesn't matter if that is what she was planning on doing anyway, they see it as violence furthering their political goals."
] |
>
Let's see how proud he is with 20 years in jail. | [
"I don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr.",
">\n\nAnd of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of \"their rights and feelings\", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil.",
">\n\nConservatives are an existential to humanity.",
">\n\nReally now?",
">\n\nNow lol.",
">\n\nThe guy he attacked is likely to die of natural causes before this nut gets out of prison.",
">\n\nMan, he's going to go into a deep dark hole forever",
">\n\nSo GOP now means Gang of Politicians?",
">\n\nThe worst part might be that to the GOP it looks like it worked. Pelosi stepped down from Democratic leadership. It doesn't matter if that is what she was planning on doing anyway, they see it as violence furthering their political goals.",
">\n\nThis is what happens when you protext the class bully. Bad enough Trump became President, but the establishment protected him and even defended him once he got the nomination, but was no longer treated as the outsider he was, and the outsider he stayed all through his Presidency.",
">\n\nLet's see how proud he is with 20 years in jail.",
">\n\nI don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr.",
">\n\nAnd of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of \"their rights and feelings\", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil.",
">\n\nConservatives are an existential to humanity.",
">\n\nReally now?",
">\n\nNow lol.",
">\n\nThe guy he attacked is likely to die of natural causes before this nut gets out of prison.",
">\n\nMan, he's going to go into a deep dark hole forever",
">\n\nSo GOP now means Gang of Politicians?",
">\n\nThe worst part might be that to the GOP it looks like it worked. Pelosi stepped down from Democratic leadership. It doesn't matter if that is what she was planning on doing anyway, they see it as violence furthering their political goals.",
">\n\nThis is what happens when you protext the class bully. Bad enough Trump became President, but the establishment protected him and even defended him once he got the nomination, but was no longer treated as the outsider he was, and the outsider he stayed all through his Presidency."
] |
> | [
"I don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr.",
">\n\nAnd of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of \"their rights and feelings\", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil.",
">\n\nConservatives are an existential to humanity.",
">\n\nReally now?",
">\n\nNow lol.",
">\n\nThe guy he attacked is likely to die of natural causes before this nut gets out of prison.",
">\n\nMan, he's going to go into a deep dark hole forever",
">\n\nSo GOP now means Gang of Politicians?",
">\n\nThe worst part might be that to the GOP it looks like it worked. Pelosi stepped down from Democratic leadership. It doesn't matter if that is what she was planning on doing anyway, they see it as violence furthering their political goals.",
">\n\nThis is what happens when you protext the class bully. Bad enough Trump became President, but the establishment protected him and even defended him once he got the nomination, but was no longer treated as the outsider he was, and the outsider he stayed all through his Presidency.",
">\n\nLet's see how proud he is with 20 years in jail.",
">\n\nI don’t get it. Even if you buy the fucked up ideology, how are you proud of attempting an attack, screwing it up, and then settling for hitting an 80 year-old man over the head with a hammer? I mean, even as a bottom-feeding fascist, you should be ashamed of yourself.",
">\n\nHaving listened to the 911 call and his interrogation by police… the guy is exceptionally stupid.",
">\n\nMost of them are. It's much easier to swindle stupid people.\nThey also do pretty much anything you tell them to do if you promise them something they want.",
">\n\nIt's easier to fool people than convince them they've been fooled.",
">\n\nFool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.",
">\n\nI can't even remember the correct saying anymore. All I remember is Bush's fukken face and this beautiful nonsense.",
">\n\n\"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.\" \nRepublicans have ALL forgotten that second part, and live for being fooled over and over again.",
">\n\nI’m convinced that W’s fub of that adage was intentional. He was speaking unscripted, got halfway in, realized he was about to say “shame on me” on record, and found a way to deny the media that soundbite. He looked foolish doing it, for sure, but it was really quite a savvy ‘mistake’.",
">\n\nEver see bush speak before he ran for president? It's like a night and day difference. He was actually very well spoken and articulate.\nEither he quickly became dumber or he was putting on a \"average Joe Texas\" persona to win over the blue collar crowd.",
">\n\nLarry the Cable Guy is in Mensa",
">\n\nLast year at CPAC they had a big ass banner saying \"We Are All Domestic Terrorists\". Of course the GOP supports him.",
">\n\nWait, seriously?",
">\n\nYeah it was an attempt to take back the narrative that they are terrorists after January 6 in a tongue and cheek sarcastic kind of way. Conservatives are not all that good at humor.",
">\n\nMy takeaway from that little stunt was less with what the words were and more that they have completely dropped the pretense of pretending there are things off limits anymore.",
">\n\nI think the main point was to deflect what liberals are pointing out.\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're aaallll domestic terrorists.\"\nIt's a way to handwave away legitimate criticism by saying that liberals are just mouth-foaming illogical idiots with no nuance, and the conservatives eat it up.",
">\n\nIt also demonstrates how comfortable they feel. They really are talking out both sides of their mouths.\nMore like this:\n\n\"gee, I guess everyone is a Nazi these days, huh\"\n\"oh, you think that's racism? ok buddy everything's racist, huh\"\n\"sure liberals, we're just domestic terrorists. Yup, we're all domestic terrorists.\"\n\njk...unless??",
">\n\nI just can’t with the stupid anymore. Haven’t been this depressed for so long ever, and it sucks it all comes down to these ass clowns ripping my family apart. It’s been at a personal level for me and my cousins since day 1 and it’s only gotten worse. Feel like we won’t see any significant change in a positive direction for quite some time either.",
">\n\nI feel you, this week I hit a new level of depressed. Hung out with my parents & sister for the first time since Christmas. Went to church with them, got lunch, it was almost nice, then they starting complaining about the \"terrible progressive liberals\" with me right there, knowing I'm pretty liberal. The amount of hate & ignorance they displayed was so depressing. Then my dad said he knows his political views are aligned with God because the progressive liberals want all humans to be dead and have the planet free of us, but God told mankind to have \"dominion over the earth\". It was just a new level of low for them, and sooooooo fucking stupid too. I guess conservative media is telling them all liberals want them dead so the environment can be better, not surprised Fox News is pitching that, but the fact that my family buys into it.... so sad, I think they are fully lost at this point. They were well educated and mild mannered people, were....\nI've just curled up on the couch after work the last 2 days. Any time I've ever tried to have a calm discussion about it, they get enraged\nI just want my family back...",
">\n\n\nI just want my family back...\n\nBlood relatives are not necessarily family, nor is a family static. Torturing yourself to accept people when you're at fundamental odds because of the past and/or \"family is the most important thing no matter what\" being drilled into your head is never going to be worth it.\nMy advice is to move on and learn to not feel guilt about doing so. If you don't burn bridges on your way out, you can always reconnect later if things change. In the meantime you can choose who or what you'd like to consider family.",
">\n\n'He was only going to hammer her knees if she lied to him.'\nNo matter what she would have told him, he would have called her a liar and hammered her knees...and then her head. \nHe was there to KILL her and the Right is still making jokes about it.",
">\n\nI like how conservatives think that instead of just admitting he was his gay lover having a spat, his go-to alibi was that he was going to hold Nancy hostage and potentially murder her for her lies instead, as if that makes any sense.",
">\n\nThink about the people making that claim - for them, being publicly known to be gay is still the more damning of the two options. In 2023.",
">\n\nCBS News in Chicago named News radio 780 engaged in the most outrageous and irresponsible reporting by a major outlet I think I've ever heard a couple of days ago regarding this issue\nFirst they announced with great fanfare that Mr Depape was speaking out from jail. First of all, who \"speaks out\" from jail? You're in jail. You have to intentionally reach out to a prisoner if you want to hear what they said. The question that needs to be asked is why, when there have been a grand total of zero jailed mass shooters opinions and motives aired on this channel throughout the years, would you want to know what made this particular criminal tick? The only possible answer is to advance political violence\nNext, they went on to announce that we should all be grateful for his actions. Then something about warning others about more like him or something like this. They then went on to happily announce that this guy would be posting his thoughts and motives on social media so, stay tuned to Newsradio 78!!!\nWhat the absolute fuck. I've opined on propaganda lite before and it's so prevalent these days, we can't even spot it most times. But this, THIS is what they do, in a nutshell. This is the terrifying stuff. This is what will turn good public servants away from public service where they will be replaced with the next fascist. This is what motivates the subset of the most angry kool-aid drinkers sharpening their spears in the darkest corners of our society because they now know, their thoughts and motivations will be amplified by mass media if they take the big step. They don't provide any context to airing these motivations like Salon did in their writing for reporting on the same thing. They just left his words hanging out there in the breeze then moved on to whatever else their sold out writers came up with\nI can't even believe what I'm hearing from our mass media lately. They most obviously have seemed to have picked a side and in this case, it was not the side of an attempted murder victim but rather, the attempted murderer along with the long and growing list of GOP political violence apologists",
">\n\nConservative violence has always been there the open support of it is new.",
">\n\nWhich is a sign of future transgressions like Jan 6. No one learned anything other than you can sack the capitol and walk away. The 900 no names they have currently prosecuted are not the leaders, organizers or even a high percentage of those involved. A joke really, and you best believe our enemies abroad were and still are taking many notes.",
">\n\nSeriously, r/capitolconsequences has become a sad joke at this point, you get reprimanded for pointing out that none of the people responsible have faced any consequences and that the clock is running out for the DOJ to do anything. “The wheels of Justice turn slowly!” Yeah, well that doesn’t matter if they move so slowly that the offending party is able to reclaim power and effectively wipe the slate clean, does it?",
">\n\nYup. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt but this is beyond reproach, since the top orchestrators are still in positions of power and seemingly emboldened since. Add in what happened in Brazil, and how swiftly they acted, and we are truly a joke when it comes to accountability and protecting our democracy.",
">\n\nOr look at what just happened in Germany: they had a right wing coup attempt and they didn’t waste a minute rounding up everyone involved. It’s almost like they know what happens if you let these things fester!",
">\n\n\"Live in fear and do what we tell you or we will kill you\". That's the World the Republicans want you to live in. That's their only policy in Washington. That's their vision of 'America'. The Bullies have taken over.",
">\n\nThe bullies have always been in control, except for a few brief periods of progress over the years. Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt are revered for a reason, they each presided over a period where we beat the darkness back a bit. But the darkness is always waiting, always ready to do harm. And this is not a new thing in human societies, it is the norm. We could be better, but broadly speaking, we aren't. The people with the most will seem to be the ones most willing to do harm to others for personal gain. The gentle souls who want the world to be a better place are generally too easily distracted, too easily discouraged.",
">\n\nRoosevelt was great for the american working class...not so great for native americans though.",
">\n\nOr Japanese Americans.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nThey dropped all pretense of civility 7 years ago.",
">\n\nNixon's pardon fifty years ago is a straight line to the Republican party today.",
">\n\n\nNot even Gerald Ford, the unhappy ex-president who pardoned Nixon and kept him out of prison, was immune to the evil fallout. Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that \"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon.\"",
">\n\nFun reminder that Ford is the only President never elected since he was appointed his VP role and wasn’t elected as VP in an election. \nThe only President not picked by the electoral college pardoned the person who gave him the presidency",
">\n\nAlso the president who had backdoor meetings with the DeVos family to stymie FTC proceedings against Amway, opening the door for MLMs in our economy, just a fun little fact from podcast The Dream.",
">\n\nStochastic terrorism, they paint society as being over run by a bunch of random psychos and then work up, enable, and unleash the psychos on the public",
">\n\nThis is such a bizarre turnaround. \nConservatives are literally the entrenched representatives of regression or perpetuating the status quo. They are the rich elite, often privately educated, Ivy League attendees, the landed gentry, a group vested in crushing the common man and keeping their club exclusive…\nAnd yet they have managed to paint themselves as some kind of radical movement - a group of ‘anti-establishment’, ‘anti-government’, ‘anti-elitism’, ‘pro freedom’, ‘pro worker’ underdogs that elicit fervent devotion from people they would have imprisoned in an instant if they had the audacity to turn up at their country club gates. \nIt is turkeys voting for Christmas, grabbing a chicken and throwing themselves in the oven in a gleeful, frenzied effort to burn themselves to death, so long as the chickens get cooked too. \nAll the while the farmer is sitting back telling the turkeys they’re going to be dinner, but be sure those chickens don’t get away with not being cooked as well.",
">\n\nFaux populism is one of the main tenets of fascism",
">\n\nThe definition of terrorism is using violence to accomplish political ends.\nHe is a terrorist. The proud bois are terrorists. The Republican party is a terrorist party.",
">\n\nIf you feel compelled to go back to the numerous threads where they all crawled out of the woodwork to proclaim he was Pelosi's gay, liberal lover, don't bother. They've already moved on to new talking points and probably don't even remember saying that.\nThat's the magic when you never actually believe anything -- you can say whatever you want from one minute to the next, and none of it has to make any sense.",
">\n\nConservatives celebrated the attack and have continued to use it to take both Pelosis as well as liberals in general. Conservatives are the enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nDon't forget that, while celebrating it, they're also claiming the attacker was a staunch liberal and any talk of it being a right wing attack is purely lies by the main stream media.\nSame old same old... \"We take no responsibility\"",
">\n\nDon't forget that weird claim it was a gay lover. Because throw in a little homophobia for a treat. It's like a little spice for conservatives. \"Oh this is looking like some good hot and ready propaganda, but can we throw in some fear mongering and shame towards a persecuted group?\"",
">\n\nIt was comical reading the “thoughts” of all the weirdos in the conspiracy subreddit. \nWhen the video came out, it was just people saying things like “Looks suspicious,” without explaining why. \nBecause their narratives were disproven, and they were looking for any reason they could to validate them. They weren’t finding any, so there were just vague complaints. \nThen it turned into “Why was Pelosi holding a drink” or “Why was he sleeping in a dress shirt.”",
">\n\nI came here to say this! I was on r/conservative last week and there were at least four front page posts about how the video was going to be released… the next day, after the release, there was only one. Every comment was how it looked like a “lovers quarrel” or how suspicious it was that a man would be in his underwear in his own home in the early morning hours. It’s funny because I see commenters there hocking stoicism all the time but their takes are what Zeno of Citium would say is like a dog tied to cart: it goes wherever the cart goes, not by will, but by necessity. They are tied to their own disgust/dislike and will let that compel their beliefs without shame or self awareness. The “facts over feelings” crowd have never met a fact they won’t deny in favor of a feeling.",
">\n\nMy FIL is a HUGE MAGA supporter. The jokes were flying when this news came out. Since he's seen the video, silence. No response. Also, he's a devote Christian.",
">\n\nAren’t they always devout “followers” of Christ? If i were Jesus i would be fucking livid.",
">\n\nThey'd string Jesus up in a heartbeat as a brown socialist.",
">\n\nAfter reading the first three New Testament books, mostly about Jesus, I realized an inmense majority of Christians have no idea of who Jesus is. It's exactly the person they most hate.",
">\n\nWhat's crazy is how fast the Nazi party started implementing obscenely oppressive laws against Jews. Within just a few months. That's how fast it can happen.\nGetting real tired of conservatives who zoned out in history class and never bothered to pick up a history book as an adult telling people they are overreacting when we compare the current Republican party to fascists.\nAll it takes is complacence for a very short period of time for things to get real dark.",
">\n\nYou know who else was an imperfect vessel? Hitler.\nThe evangelical churches in Germany tried to make a deal with the devil, prostrating itself and allowing Hitler to appoint politically the leader of their religious confederation.\nThey justified it for all sorts of reasons. Hitler couldn't be that bad. Besides, we're talking about salvation and saving the soul of an increasingly secular Germany here; hellfire and damnation is a low price to pay if it means saving the souls of millions.\nUnfortunately, the devil snubbed them. Hitler had no intention of honouring his end of the deal; initially, he couldn't move against the church due to the war effort, but he had every intention of wiping out religion in Germany if he won the war. It was a dark stain on their history after the war and the churches lost much of their remaining credibility.",
">\n\nHas he been invited to speak at CPAC yet??",
">\n\nDid anybody on the planet think that this moron on his own came to the conclusion that he needed to attack the Pelosi’s? Of course not, of course he was emboldened by the Republican Party",
">\n\nPeople commenting on my local news station's Facebook page are saying the attacker is Paul's gay lover and they were partying it up in their underwear and the video was doctored. The republican base is not tied to reality anymore. There is no saving them.",
">\n\nKavanaugh gets interrupted while having a high end steak dinner; Conservatives lose their minds over the transgression. \nMentally ill man that their party leader whipped into a frenzy attacks an elderly man with a hammer with the intent to assassinate the Speaker of the House with said hammer; Conservatives say they deserved it. \nI am and have been an Independent my entire life. Voted for both main parties and some third parties over the years. \nThe current GOP scares the shit out of me. In part for their rhetoric but primarily because after 1/6 they didn't learn a lesson.",
">\n\nI think real problem is they actually did learn a lesson after 1/6: we would rather follow the rules than stop them.",
">\n\nIf you know a republican you either know violent domestic terrorist or a complicit asshole.",
">\n\nAgreed. Uncle in my family. So far just a complicit asshole but I fully believe he'd be a violent domestic terrorist if he wasn't so poor and lazy. 100% he wanted to be there January 6th but it involved getting off his ass.",
">\n\nJust compare and contrast Republican and Democrat reactions on political attacks. When Steve Scalise was shot at a Congressional baseball game practice, no one said it was a jilted gay lover. No one cheered the attack or called the mentally unwell man that did it a hero. No news networks gleefully showed footage and photos of it over and over, speculating on what really happened, wink wink. \nThe GOP is a party of violence and unchecked, unwarranted hatred.",
">\n\nThis is terrorism btw. \nBut they’re still more worried about men wearing dresses.",
">\n\nOh I’m glad they told me that the GOP has become the violent party only recently. I never would have thought that the last 7 years of constant political violence and acts of terrorism coming from their constituents would qualify them as the party of political violence until Salon told me about it!",
">\n\nSay the words:\nRadical Republican Terrorism",
">\n\nElon did as well when he tweeted out a conspiracy theory.",
">\n\n\na judge ordered the release of video footage that appears to show DePape beating Paul Pelosi, the husband of then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, with a hammer after refusing to listen to police orders to drop the weapon. The video is hard to watch, showing the suspect tackling Pelosi to the ground and viciously pounding him with a hammer while the police attempt to pull him off the 82-year-old man.\n\nNot that the point needs more illustration, but this sequence of events just underscores how fucking useless police are. \nYou can be the husband of the Speaker of the House - a pinnacle of privilege, - have the cops respond to an intruder call before the violence starts, get there, confront the suspect, armed, who refused to comply, and they will STILL FAIL to protect you from being beaten within an inch of your life.",
">\n\nHave you seen the video? It all happened within like 3 seconds, the police responded pretty appropriately imo",
">\n\nI have; scene opens on Fuckface holding Pelosi's arm and gripping a hammer, which is very clearly not a good thing. The cop tells him to drop the hammer with the same urgency tone of voice as you'd tell a dog to drop a shoe, and he chuckles and says \"uhhh nope lol\". Cop asks \"what is going on in here,\" with again, nowhere near the urgency you'd expect, not \"DROP IT NOW, HANDS ON YOUR HEAD\", but just dicklessly asking what's happening, like he can't fucking see what's in front of him. \nThe cops look like fucking morons.",
">\n\nIt's not a joke when they're called the American Taliban",
">\n\nConservativism is a mental illness.",
">\n\nSomething I've been wondering about. At what point do I switch my public voter registration to Republican, so that I don't have to worry about people hunting me down in the future, Mcarthyism style?",
">\n\n“Don’t be silly be a smartie come and join the nazi party!”\nextended musical number",
">\n\nThankfully you can still vote, privately, however you want.\nI'm just worried about some vigilante looking up voter reg and going door to door.",
">\n\nRight wing extremism is on the rise globally. Chaos is fuelled by their media ecosystem \nOnce the president was out and attacking entire portions of the population for NOT BEING IN HIS POLITICAL PARTY that should have been what made people wake up.\nThey won’t wake up.\nThey want their dream and they’ll kill to get it because they see themselves as heroes of virtue.\nIt’s twisted to the core.\nThere is no hate quite like American Christian love",
">\n\nDamn that last sentence was too real",
">\n\nRepublican politicians (save for a precious few who have mostly since been purged from the party) turning a blind eye to, if not outright supporting or participating in the violent overthrow of democratic government on Jan 6, was probably bit of of a hint.",
">\n\nHe and Rittenhouse could do a road show.",
">\n\nSorry Kyle Rittenhouse. Party’s over. \nThere is a new criminal POS for the GOP to worship. You’re yesterday’s news. They’ve moved on to DePape who they’ll lift up until these cops in Memphis go on trial then they’ll rush to get behind them. \nThere will always be new human garbage for Republicans to defend and support.",
">\n\n\nPelosi's attacker is proud of himself. \n\nOf course he is. DePape believes he has a good shot of getting a role in a 3 Stooges movie.",
">\n\nShould make sentencing a lot easier when he openly admits he did the crime.",
">\n\nIt’s weird that things like this are still presented as outliers and considered shocking. The GQP has made the turn to full on terrorism/fascism. This is the only platform they have left to stand on.",
">\n\nThere are a lot of uncanny similarities to the rise of the Nazis... Calling the political leader a clown, a failed coup (and they kept trying) worshiping the leader, political violence....",
">\n\nthe word is \"Terrorism\"\nThey're the party of terrorism.",
">\n\nDo we wait until they start proudly calling themselves Nazis before we fight them like the Nazis they are?",
">\n\nFucker probably thinks he’s the next rittenhouse",
">\n\nWhen his trial judge walks up to him, kisses his hand and tells him what a wonderful defendant he has been, he will be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. When his trial judge cries as he is sentenced to short time, he will be the next Kim Potter.",
">\n\nI saw a guy today driving around with a 2A sticker (spelled with guns) and a republican elephant sticker. \nShow me democrats driving around with donkeys on their car. Maybe you’ll see a Bernie sticker here and there. Or the remnants of an Im With Her sticker. But proud party affiliation like that is weirdly for republicans and it’s all about weapons.\nEdit - I’m just gonna address this here since there’s a lot of what-aboutism in the replies…I’m not denying that liberals have bumper stickers. But you don’t see extremist liberals (if that’s even a thing…) openly aligning themselves with a mainstream political party the way you do on the right.",
">\n\nIf I lived in a red state I would sure as hell not want anything on my car denoting that I’m a blue voter. There are too many examples of idiots who do bad things",
">\n\nEven in blue states. It only takes one angry conservative to ruin my paint.",
">\n\nI live in a conservative-leaning pocket of Los Angeles and even I won't put something out or on my car anymore. Some of the people here are fucking nuts. Thanks, NextDoor, for making them easier to identify and subsequently avoid.",
">\n\nIt's not typical for crazies to control their insanity. They're going to get progressively worse. It's inevitable.",
">\n\nAnd for a lot of them, it’s “funny”. Instead of condemning the violence they use it for their memes and tweets to trigger the libs. We saw a slow ramp up in violence like the Trump caravan harassing a Biden campaign bus in Texas and recently a failed GOP candidate shooting at democrats’ houses. And the many campaign ads depicting violence against democrats. It’s just sad.",
">\n\nThe guy wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nHow is he proud of himself he couldn’t even take an 80-year-old man. that’s a big W for Pelosi",
">\n\nSo many “loving Christians” in my family thought it was absolutely hilarious when this happened. They think it’s great. I’m grieving my family the last few years. I don’t recognize who’ve they’ve turned into.",
">\n\nAfter the videos were released the GQP stopped reporting it was a gay encounter gone wrong. These worthless twatburgers need to face some consequences already….",
">\n\nConservatives have low intellect",
">\n\nWhen’s this guy going to speak at CPAC? They can give him the Kyle Rittenhouse medal of valor.",
">\n\nMan, the comments defending this dude. \"He's not a republican! He's a liberal!\" \n\"Later, in an interview with investigators, DePape said he had intended to hold Nancy Pelosi hostage and question her over what Democrats had done to former President Trump. If she had lied, he said he intended to break her kneecaps.\"\nHmmm. Yeah, definitely a liberal. Liberals love Trump. (Obvious /s)\nAnd also this little gem: \"Despite saying he didn't want to jeopardize his case, DePape told KTVU he attacked Pelosi because \"liberty isn't dying, it's being killed systematically and deliberately.\" \nThe \"people killing it have names and addresses, so I got their names and addresses so I could pay them a little visit … have a heart-to-heart chat about their bad behavior,\" he asserted.\nFollowed by his \"apology\": \"I want to apologize to everyone. I messed up. What I did was really bad. I'm so sorry I didn't get more of them. It's my own fault. No one else is to blame. I should have come better prepared,\" he said.\"\nYup. Sure sounds super liberal to me (/s). Couldn't possibly be a \"patriot\" conservative. They're so docile and would never resort to violence.",
">\n\nRepublican politicians don’t care about the people who vote them in, they just want to be voted in. Spouting violent rhetoric to get their voters fired up is all they have to do, they ignore everything else and feign ignorance at their own inciting because at the end of the day, they got elected and have power.",
">\n\nThe party of Trump.\nThe party of Putin.\nThe party of Fear.\nThe party of Violence.\nThe party of \"strengthen Social Security by raising retirement age.\"",
">\n\nNow? Pretty sure it was well established before now.",
">\n\nRecently seen a headline from Fox News saying that they were calling for the DOJ to investigate CNNs reporting on the story claiming they edited the released video to make it look worse than it was. \nThe video I saw was cops arriving, waiting for like 15 seconds, the door opening, the cops telling them to drop the hammer, someone says no and dude gets control of the hammer, swings and knocks him out. No cuts or signs there was any editing in the solid video I watched. \nWhat exactly is Fox News suggesting CNN did to alter the evidence?\nIt’s crazy to think they can just make whatever claims and no one holds them accountable. These people lying and claiming innocence on the attackers part after he was proud about doing it should be held financially responsible if not legally responsible.",
">\n\nHe is proud of himself. He should get the max sentencing. Throw away the key.",
">\n\nPelosi home attacked, 4 other shooting attacks on democratic congressmen, democratic governor attempted kidnapping..was there more? Super scary trend.",
">\n\nThey are in a violent war with the rest of us. They know it, why don't we?",
">\n\n\"now\"\nBeen that way. Be prepared for self defense in any situation. Those assholes act feral.",
">\n\nGOP is a domestic terror group.",
">\n\nYou have been permanently banned from r/conservative.",
">\n\nI don't see how a violent attack on such prominent political figures is written off by so many as not at all politically motivated.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean “Now” ?? Jan 6 was the clear indication of violence.",
">\n\nI feel like we should start referring to them as jihadist.",
">\n\nNow?\nAh yes, because Jan. 6th, Buffalo, El Paso, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Denver, etc. were so peaceful.\nEdit: Orlando, Colorado Springs, the Florida pipebomber, the Michigan terrorist who tried to kidnap and kill the governor, the Arizona terrorist who threatened people at drop boxes, the Nashville RV bomber, Charlottesville\nEdit 2: The Proud Boys who murdered the California FBI agent, the Cincinnati FBI attacker, the Proud Boys who attacked police stations during the BLM protest in 2020.\nEdit 3: Kyle Rittenhouse, the Memphis police, the Dallas police, the Aurora police",
">\n\nParty of criminals and terrorists",
">\n\nHe will get to tour with Kyle Rittenhouse.",
">\n\nIt's obvious that pumping these folks full of misinformation and then saying \"someone should really do something about this huge problem\" is exactly what leads to this violence. The GOP knows it, condones it, pays for its dispersal into all forms of media. And they're not stopping until they're made to stop.",
">\n\nCorrection: the party of domestic terrorism.",
">\n\nAlways has been",
">\n\nNow? They always have been.",
">\n\nI keep saying the democrats hold themselves to a higher standard, even Republicans hold Dems to a higher standard than themselves, and the GOP just keeps proving me right.",
">\n\nLove how the GOP rails against the illegals coming in and yet this mother fucker has been in the US illegally for 15 years, cannot even vote in US elections and tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House. But the Mexicans…right. So illegals bad when they’re brown but when they’re delusional Canadian psychos who are white….it’s all good.",
">\n\nI grew up with a dad that would make comments about \"Pelosi should be drug out into the street and horse-whipped.\" so absolutely nothing about their mentality surprises me.",
">\n\nNews organizations I mean actual news, doesn’t get enough support, which is why I support public media. They aren’t beholden to advertisers. \nAlso, I’ve noticed that since there isn’t enough truly local news, the people they hire don’t dig with candidates. Locally, in a very liberal area, a Republican candidate for state representative presented herself as a moderate, a peacemaker. No one asked her for her actual beliefs or what she thought needed compromise. When I posted on NextDoor in response to a magazine editor who supported her, with skepticism, I was challenged to go out with this candidate for coffee. Within minutes, I learned that she had only lived in the state for three years, and indeed, she had a right wing agenda, and lots of stances that someone in media could have uncovered in maybe ten minutes of questioning. For instance, she saw nothing wrong with standing in line to vote (we have the most secure mail in voting in the country). She was completely uninformed about any instances when both mother and baby can’t be both saved in late term complications. She was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, taking VA Governor Youngkin’s playbook. I of course wrote letters to the editor to try and inform people, and my own social media. She lost. I don’t take credit for that, she was a long shot here. The point is, media doesn’t dig for truth anymore.",
">\n\nThe party of sociopaths",
">\n\nAll the more reason to nip that crap in the bud. \nLet others see that when you cross the line into hurting others, there are significant consequences.\nThink bad thoughts if you must - but do not act on them. \nDo not hurt other Americans. \nDo not hurt people.",
">\n\nIt’s amazing how they went from, he’s Pelosi’s lover to he’s Antifa to he was a deranged homeless person so it’s the Democrats fault to finally, good for him, Pelosi deserved it. The mental gymnastics of these people is absolutely incredible.",
">\n\nThey have been the party of violence and hatred for as long as I can remember.",
">\n\nI think I get it. If someone attacks Nunez or McCarthy we would likely feel a bit of what GOP is feeling right now. But we would at least make an effort to condemn the violence.\nThe hatred for Pelosi by the right can’t be underestimated. Right wing media and Trumpism wanted this to win elections.",
">\n\nLiterally heard two men laughing and joking about it this weekend (Dallas, TX). Talking about how good the attacker’s form was and genuinely taking pleasure out of an 80 year old man being violently attacked in his own home with a hammer… People are losing all sense of humanity and empathy.",
">\n\nFor murdering 3 people Kyle Riddenhouse has been offered prestigious jobs, a million $ book deal, and had a law passed in his name.\nConservatives reward these psychopathic morons because they push the GOP agenda of fear and oppression more effectively than any single lawmaker could dream.",
">\n\nSpoiler alert: No act of violence is ever going to be bad enough to change the GOP. (Just in case Washington Post or NYT was about to make another “how much is enough?” headline).",
">\n\nWhy would it change them? Its the result they're looking for. The violence isnt accidental or a by product; its the goal.",
">\n\nI have no doubt that right now, sitting in his cell, he's got supporters who are sending him love letters and money.",
">\n\nThe right made Rittenhouse into a celebrity. \nalso US couple who pointed guns at BLM protesters 'to speak at Republican convention'",
">\n\nThis post really got MAGAnation up in arms...look at all the posts claiming DePape was a liberal, a terrorist, the whataboutism, etc.",
">\n\nAnd yet if someone on the left swears those same people are pearl-clutching.\nCocks",
">\n\nDarn, I was trying to brand the Republican Party as the Clown Party. Can we have clowns and violence in one political party?",
">\n\nHave you not seen \"IT\"? Of course clowns can be violent, they are terrifying!",
">\n\nI don't understand... Are politicians THIS divorced from realty? It's been obvious for years this is where we're headed. Any sensible democrat politician would arm themselves or at least set up more home security.... The pelosis have the money to do it, even",
">\n\nYou can’t shame the shameless",
">\n\nLiterally what the song \"Lunatic Fringe\" by Red Rider is about everyone should go listen 🎸🎹",
">\n\n\"Because you've got to blame someone for your own confusion\" is the line that resonates.",
">\n\nnazi gonna nazi",
">\n\nAs opposed to before when they centered fascism and violence",
">\n\nIt'll all be well and good until Republicans start getting attacked. Then those pearl-clutching assholes will start croaking about \"Violent libs and antifa.\"",
">\n\nAlways has been IMO",
">\n\n\nThe GOP is the party of the political violence now.\n\nAlways was.",
">\n\nWhat do you mean, now? they’ve always been the party of political violence, they’re right wing, racist, nazi fuckers who only care about themselves and white Christian nationalism 🤯",
">\n\nIt always will be. So long as the justice department won’t lay a finger on the insurrectionists of Jan 6th, the enablers , and followers of the theocratic Christian cult.\nThe GOP is an enemy of the American people.",
">\n\nThe GOP commits the violence. \nThe Democrats turn a blind eye, and insist on \"bipartisan unity\". EVEN NANCY PELOSI. \nThis attacker will be treated with kid gloves and get a light sentence like the January 6th terrorists, oh, sorry, \"tresspassers\" who get 2 weeks in jail and a $50 trespassing fine after they tried to murder Members of Congress. \nIt's not MY face in the crosshairs. I can't care about their lives more than they do.",
">\n\nit literally always has been",
">\n\nGOP is the party of political violence… now? \nNo, it always has been. \n🌎👨🚀🔫🧑🚀",
">\n\nTo show how media is diluting the problem...\nTerrorism Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.\nShouldn't this headline read \"...the party of terrorism\"??",
">\n\nI watched the police body cam last night. I can't believe how many wacks he got in before the cops tackled him. They should have shot him as soon as he raised his hand with the hammer. Just horrifying. I don't know how Pelosi is alive.",
">\n\nI talked to a gun supporter about guns and mentioned they were practical for hunting in rural areas.\nHe said… well that’s not the point: it’s for armed resistance to the government.\nThat was before Jan 6. Not a shocker how this turned out if you were listening to what they were saying.",
">\n\n“Now”?",
">\n\nI keep telling people, if we as a people don't do anything about this insanity, we're headed right for \"The Handmaid's Tale\" timeline, they're starting to ban books and boycott gay people in general, not a thought about sexual abuse but vehemently pro life no matter what. We need to shut this down!",
">\n\nJust think everyone. There are people out there who don’t believe this dumbass even as he admitted his intention to harm Nancy. I know many will disagree when I say those who support these narratives are Demon infested.\nThis explains the lack of shame in him….. and Carlson.",
">\n\nI’m old enough to remember when the right claimed the moral and ethical high ground. They never owned it, and it’s so obvious now.",
">\n\nPolice should have shot him dead when he continued to attack Pelosi. Lethal force is justified.",
">\n\n\nParty of political violence now\n\nNow?\nTimothy McVeigh called (oh wait no he didn't. He dead)!",
">\n\nThe fastest death penalty case and fastest execution in modern history. It seemed a little conspiratorial at the time.",
">\n\nDoes not show regret. Check.",
">\n\nThey are all domestic terrorists.",
">\n\nSadly I have heard the argument that the video is fake as hell and this was all a liberal lie from Maga morons",
">\n\nThis is so stupid...\nStop saying \"GOP/Republicans are X now\", they've been that way for decades. Pretending it is a new thing is literally helping them look better and ignores their long history of corruption and violence.",
">\n\n\"Now\"??? They've been assaulting civil rights activists and bombing abortion clinics for decades.",
">\n\nThe GOP relies on useful idiots like this to carry out the actions that they're too cowardly to do themselves.",
">\n\nenjoy your fame in prison you twisted dip shit",
">\n\nThe dude looked confused and lost in the bodycam footage, kinda like the dumbshits that raided the Capitol.\nBut somehow, some way, the republican programming turned back on and he tried to kill Paul dead with the hammer.",
">\n\nParty of brain dead idiots led by fucking terrorists.",
">\n\nLet him be proud of his 30 years in prison for attempted murder, during which he will not be granted much thought at all. Buh bye, dumbass!",
">\n\nWell, they admitted they were domestic terrorists. Even if they claim it was tongue in cheek. I mean, they kinda ingrain that kernel of truth right?",
">\n\nSo, they've dropped the gay lover spat theory?",
">\n\nAaaand...the GOP has disowned him, but not for the attack: Because he failed.",
">\n\nIt's easy to dismiss these guys as stupid, or crazy (most likely both), but the problem is, these guys exist... a lot of them. So when they turn on right wing radio, watch Fox News, listen to Trump or his acolytes, they are emboldening these maniacs. \nEven if the right wingers DO condemn these guys, they are still fueling their rage.",
">\n\nIt's usually the uneducated that fall for the rhetoric. Race isn't even a factor all the time. Im hispanic and married to an Asian American. We have family, on both sides that believe in the GOP nonsense and some are huge Trump supporters still to this day. It's easier for them to continue to believe in the nonsense than admit that they were wrong.\nBlows my damn mind!!",
">\n\nI'm sick of folks coddling these pieces of human excrement by giving them a mentally ill \"pass\". They may have some legitimate pathological mental health issues, but they're also fucking evil.",
">\n\n\"Now\"? Their violence against leaders they don't agree with is nothing new. Add to that POC, children trying to go to desegregated schools, women's health clinics, and their refusal to support common sense gun laws, stricter domestic violence laws, and reforms to combat police brutality along with their love of war and hatred for diplomatic efforts, violence has been a big part of their agenda for decades.",
">\n\nAlso /r/wallstreetbets can be blamed as well. They spread shit and demonize the Pelosis' constantly",
">\n\nEr... They've been the party of political violence since at least Nixon.",
">\n\nNow? They have been for a long time.",
">\n\nRepublicans have succeeded in creating the equivalent of “jihadist” in its ranks … those who look at prison or death as a reward for the “dirt”they carry out in the name of the cause of the elimination of liberals and minorities in favor of white men.",
">\n\nJust use the word we have for political violence Salon. The word starts with “t” and ends with “errorist.”",
">\n\n“You’re very special. We love you.”",
">\n\nNow? Has been since Nixon.",
">\n\nAnother step down the Fascism Trail. Hope the country doesn't die of Diphtheria .",
">\n\nNow? Conservatives have been waging politically motivated violence against people in this country since it's inception. \nAt least more people are realizing that, I guess.",
">\n\nThey fucking called themselves domestic terrorists for christs sake.",
">\n\nMy boss still thinks this is clearly a gay lover of Paul’s. There’s no changing these people. He’s an intelligent guy, he has money. He’s done well for himself, yet he can’t see past clear right wing propaganda. It’s wild to me.",
">\n\ni wonder if marjorie will go visit him in jail, but at the press conferences say that it was antifa that attacked mr pelosi?",
">\n\nThe GOP and conservative media pretty much universally decried this guy as being Paul Pelosi's agitated gay lover so that they had plausible deniability to not be attached to this nutso. He even said he was disappointed that he couldn't have done more/killed more people. \nGOP has always been the party of political violence. It's just not nearly as hidden now and many are going backwards into making it more obvious, not less.",
">\n\nI don't know why he feels supported by conservatives, most seem to be calling him a prostitute and Paul's secret lover, not some conservative terrorist.",
">\n\nOne only needs to remember the alligator tears of Rittenhouse and how he grew a bigger base with these radical rights",
">\n\nWow! The GOP can't even handle verbal criticism or truth, yet they are just fine with violence and lies. And they wonder why voters are walking away from them.",
">\n\nThey are emptying classrooms of all books. They are only teaching their rigid totalitarian beliefs in religion, terrorism, and bigotry. They are raising a nee generation of little domestic terrorists. They want this. Republicans like this.",
">\n\nNot only is political violence being normalized, it can be a path to a career. Kyle Rittenhouse should be in prison, not getting speaking engagements.",
">\n\n“Now” 😂 that’s rich.",
">\n\nUnless you are in fear of your life I couldn't imagine hitting anyone with a hammer let alone feeling proud of yourself.",
">\n\nAll politics is violence. It’s about time democrats realize this and start fighting back.",
">\n\nNow?",
">\n\nI mean, let him feel proud as he rots in prison. Fucking loser. Hope he lasts as long as a head of lettuce.",
">\n\nMaybe he can go on a 'cash grab', tour with Rittenhouse.\n,",
">\n\nIf a democratic political leader shoots and kills someone attacking them (e.g. self defense) - these idiots would criticize guns and gun violence.",
">\n\nI thought the MAGA crowd were saying this was Pelosi’s gay lover and it was a lovers argument…I bet he won’t be as pleased with himself when he sees those comments and posts",
">\n\nThis moron looks like a real life Angry Bird. \nImagine if he tried to attack one of the few non-geriatric members of congress like Rueben Gallego or John Fetterman. Without their guns and Bass Pro Shop camo, these people are paper tigers.",
">\n\nhe'll be running for public office when he gets out of prison",
">\n\nThis guy is dying to become a martyr.",
">\n\nAnd of course they can cancel anything and everything cause of \"their rights and feelings\", but when the other side tries it, it's insulting and evil.",
">\n\nConservatives are an existential to humanity.",
">\n\nReally now?",
">\n\nNow lol.",
">\n\nThe guy he attacked is likely to die of natural causes before this nut gets out of prison.",
">\n\nMan, he's going to go into a deep dark hole forever",
">\n\nSo GOP now means Gang of Politicians?",
">\n\nThe worst part might be that to the GOP it looks like it worked. Pelosi stepped down from Democratic leadership. It doesn't matter if that is what she was planning on doing anyway, they see it as violence furthering their political goals.",
">\n\nThis is what happens when you protext the class bully. Bad enough Trump became President, but the establishment protected him and even defended him once he got the nomination, but was no longer treated as the outsider he was, and the outsider he stayed all through his Presidency.",
">\n\nLet's see how proud he is with 20 years in jail."
] |
This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.
Remember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not "thoughts had in the shower!"
(For an explanation of what a "showerthought" is, please read this page.)
Rule-breaking posts may result in bans. | [] |
> | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans."
] |
The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.
Say what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that. | [] |
>
That IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act.
That said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ). | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that."
] |
>
Angry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have.
Your idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 )."
] |
>
Look at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.
And while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something."
] |
>
This segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate"
] |
>
Thanks; this is an important comment that provides great context. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such."
] |
>
They forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context."
] |
>
Protests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor."
] |
>
Blockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.
From the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:
Temporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.
Amnesty asserts the same:
In principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.
In Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:
In short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.
And also in EU law:
A blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR
Notice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)
Restricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.
In practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently"
] |
>
I like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof."
] |
>
It’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:
The protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)
The intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.
Meanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest."
] |
>
Iirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either.
And the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway."
] |
>
Note you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).
For the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.
Roorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on."
] |
>
Note you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law
Then why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law."
] |
>
Because there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest.
Really all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.
If you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits"
] |
>
I'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ).
A us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ). | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit."
] |
>
Climate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference )."
] |
>
The Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!
That's the exact logic you're using. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours."
] |
>
So what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?
This is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using."
] |
>
First of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a "no" into a "yes". The correct way is to accept a "no" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.
But that is besides the point.
Because everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.
Research is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?
Their message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming "THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.
So what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable"
] |
>
Yeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.
We very much don't got this.
And it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say."
] |
>
How about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life."
] |
>
How about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?
Some things are just a tad more important than your commute. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it."
] |
>
I agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it.
And I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute."
] |
>
I can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning.
Obviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.
These blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left.
You think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.
Climate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding."
] |
>
I’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.
Your comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.
There is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.
You think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?
Don’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective."
] |
>
Yeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put "in danger" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.
Anyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever.
I'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it."
] |
>
That tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.
If you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject."
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Cool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously."
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You’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist."
] |
>
Sure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?
Anyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on."
] |
>
The right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude."
] |
>
What if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced?
I understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business."
] |
>
If people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests.
Same for cars.
If I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on.
It is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary."
] |
>
So what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have."
] |
>
This is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time."
] |
>
False. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves? | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst."
] |
>
You can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.
The order of events seem to be:
Protestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).
You can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.
People start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.
Clear. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?"
] |
>
Endanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear."
] |
>
That's a criminal act. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike."
] |
>
They were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act."
] |
>
In other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.
Who benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch."
] |
>
The minute you violate others freedom of
movement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press."
] |
>
Under that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did? | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause."
] |
>
If you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.
But don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?"
] |
>
That's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative"
] |
>
I'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul."
] |
>
There is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting."
] |
>
There is a difference between demonstrating and blockading
This came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights."
] |
>
Blocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
There are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here."
] |
>
Avoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.
It's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.
If emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit."
] |
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By that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too.
Road construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided.
Those things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.
These people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'.
To even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too."
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Have you even looked at the location?
It really isn't a choke point. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills."
] |
>
Lol they interviewed a young protester who glued himself to the asphalt. He complained that the police promised that they would remove them "softly" but according to him it wasn't soft enough and he showed some grey/black grease on his hand.
Like what the fuck is wrong with you? You glue yourself to the asphalt with superglue and you blame the police you got hurt (just hurt, no lasting damage or what so ever) when they removed you?
Another guy...
Interviewer: Why are you protesting on the highway? You are not allowed to protest here and the municipality of the city gave you permission to protest on a designated field in the city.
Protester: Yeah but if we block a highway we get more attention.
*Protester continues to mock the police*
Yeah totally fine to protest for climate if you want to, but if you're going to block highways and annoy other civilians with your actions don't be surprised if you get a little rough treatment. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills.",
">\n\nHave you even looked at the location?\nIt really isn't a choke point."
] |
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To be fair, the young guy didn't as much complain as just matter-of-factly state that the police just ripped his hand off the asphalt. A strip of asphalt was still stuck to his hand. The police are literally not allowed to do that. But it wasn't a big deal and he wasn't making a drama of it | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills.",
">\n\nHave you even looked at the location?\nIt really isn't a choke point.",
">\n\nLol they interviewed a young protester who glued himself to the asphalt. He complained that the police promised that they would remove them \"softly\" but according to him it wasn't soft enough and he showed some grey/black grease on his hand.\nLike what the fuck is wrong with you? You glue yourself to the asphalt with superglue and you blame the police you got hurt (just hurt, no lasting damage or what so ever) when they removed you?\nAnother guy...\nInterviewer: Why are you protesting on the highway? You are not allowed to protest here and the municipality of the city gave you permission to protest on a designated field in the city.\nProtester: Yeah but if we block a highway we get more attention.\n*Protester continues to mock the police*\n\nYeah totally fine to protest for climate if you want to, but if you're going to block highways and annoy other civilians with your actions don't be surprised if you get a little rough treatment."
] |
>
Tried to find the video but can't find it right now. Saw it on the news this weekend.
What the guy did was not allowed and he knew. Don't blame this on the police. You can see on all videos from this weekend, and there are a lot, that all protesters have been treated respectfully.
-edit-
What you see on his hands is a mix of filth from the road + glue. If you glue your hand to asphalt and rip it of it's not like the asphalt is going to go anywhere lol, if anything would let loose it would be your skin in stead of asphalt. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills.",
">\n\nHave you even looked at the location?\nIt really isn't a choke point.",
">\n\nLol they interviewed a young protester who glued himself to the asphalt. He complained that the police promised that they would remove them \"softly\" but according to him it wasn't soft enough and he showed some grey/black grease on his hand.\nLike what the fuck is wrong with you? You glue yourself to the asphalt with superglue and you blame the police you got hurt (just hurt, no lasting damage or what so ever) when they removed you?\nAnother guy...\nInterviewer: Why are you protesting on the highway? You are not allowed to protest here and the municipality of the city gave you permission to protest on a designated field in the city.\nProtester: Yeah but if we block a highway we get more attention.\n*Protester continues to mock the police*\n\nYeah totally fine to protest for climate if you want to, but if you're going to block highways and annoy other civilians with your actions don't be surprised if you get a little rough treatment.",
">\n\nTo be fair, the young guy didn't as much complain as just matter-of-factly state that the police just ripped his hand off the asphalt. A strip of asphalt was still stuck to his hand. The police are literally not allowed to do that. But it wasn't a big deal and he wasn't making a drama of it"
] |
>
I saw the video (7:08), and I was also there Saturday. It doesn't matter that gluing your hand to the street isn't allowed, it's still protected by the right to protest.
It's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest. Thats not just my opinion, European law and human rights treaties agree. Amnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.
I agree that the police acted decently most of the time. But not all of the time. What you don't see on tv but what i did see sitting there on the street is the sneaky ways police do exert some violence. Twisting your limbs, pressing your head against the street, a sneaky thumb on the nose that hurts like hell. They can be pretty vicious when they think they can get away with it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills.",
">\n\nHave you even looked at the location?\nIt really isn't a choke point.",
">\n\nLol they interviewed a young protester who glued himself to the asphalt. He complained that the police promised that they would remove them \"softly\" but according to him it wasn't soft enough and he showed some grey/black grease on his hand.\nLike what the fuck is wrong with you? You glue yourself to the asphalt with superglue and you blame the police you got hurt (just hurt, no lasting damage or what so ever) when they removed you?\nAnother guy...\nInterviewer: Why are you protesting on the highway? You are not allowed to protest here and the municipality of the city gave you permission to protest on a designated field in the city.\nProtester: Yeah but if we block a highway we get more attention.\n*Protester continues to mock the police*\n\nYeah totally fine to protest for climate if you want to, but if you're going to block highways and annoy other civilians with your actions don't be surprised if you get a little rough treatment.",
">\n\nTo be fair, the young guy didn't as much complain as just matter-of-factly state that the police just ripped his hand off the asphalt. A strip of asphalt was still stuck to his hand. The police are literally not allowed to do that. But it wasn't a big deal and he wasn't making a drama of it",
">\n\nTried to find the video but can't find it right now. Saw it on the news this weekend.\nWhat the guy did was not allowed and he knew. Don't blame this on the police. You can see on all videos from this weekend, and there are a lot, that all protesters have been treated respectfully.\n-edit-\nWhat you see on his hands is a mix of filth from the road + glue. If you glue your hand to asphalt and rip it of it's not like the asphalt is going to go anywhere lol, if anything would let loose it would be your skin in stead of asphalt."
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It's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest.
The protest was illegal in the first place. How is gluing yourself to a highway directly related to a protest? That does not make sense at all. If you reason in that way you can also paint-spray on public walls and call it a protest and then say "the police can not do anything about it as it is directly related to my protest".
There was an option to protest on a given place and the police would make sure you could protest in peace, but you choose to go for a highway.
Amnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.
Sorry to tell you but Amnesty International is not really a objective party and they don't have any legal authorization. Amnesty International also issued a report stating that Ukraine committed war crimes because their troops were positioned close to schools and hospitals...
And the police hurting you when removing you from an illegal protest... Nobody outside the protesters really cares. You knew you were there illegal. The police asked every protester to leave voluntary, nobody did, instead people glued themselves to make it harder to remove them. Any complain about getting hurt when the police removes you is invalid upfront.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills.",
">\n\nHave you even looked at the location?\nIt really isn't a choke point.",
">\n\nLol they interviewed a young protester who glued himself to the asphalt. He complained that the police promised that they would remove them \"softly\" but according to him it wasn't soft enough and he showed some grey/black grease on his hand.\nLike what the fuck is wrong with you? You glue yourself to the asphalt with superglue and you blame the police you got hurt (just hurt, no lasting damage or what so ever) when they removed you?\nAnother guy...\nInterviewer: Why are you protesting on the highway? You are not allowed to protest here and the municipality of the city gave you permission to protest on a designated field in the city.\nProtester: Yeah but if we block a highway we get more attention.\n*Protester continues to mock the police*\n\nYeah totally fine to protest for climate if you want to, but if you're going to block highways and annoy other civilians with your actions don't be surprised if you get a little rough treatment.",
">\n\nTo be fair, the young guy didn't as much complain as just matter-of-factly state that the police just ripped his hand off the asphalt. A strip of asphalt was still stuck to his hand. The police are literally not allowed to do that. But it wasn't a big deal and he wasn't making a drama of it",
">\n\nTried to find the video but can't find it right now. Saw it on the news this weekend.\nWhat the guy did was not allowed and he knew. Don't blame this on the police. You can see on all videos from this weekend, and there are a lot, that all protesters have been treated respectfully.\n-edit-\nWhat you see on his hands is a mix of filth from the road + glue. If you glue your hand to asphalt and rip it of it's not like the asphalt is going to go anywhere lol, if anything would let loose it would be your skin in stead of asphalt.",
">\n\nI saw the video (7:08), and I was also there Saturday. It doesn't matter that gluing your hand to the street isn't allowed, it's still protected by the right to protest. \nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest. Thats not just my opinion, European law and human rights treaties agree. Amnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\nI agree that the police acted decently most of the time. But not all of the time. What you don't see on tv but what i did see sitting there on the street is the sneaky ways police do exert some violence. Twisting your limbs, pressing your head against the street, a sneaky thumb on the nose that hurts like hell. They can be pretty vicious when they think they can get away with it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen"
] |
>
The "highway" we blocked starts right there, coming from a big intersection with traffic lights in the city only 100m away from there. It's not like people are going 120km/h already. The spot we blocked lies right next to the ministry of economic affairs and the ministry of agriculture, the very institutions we are trying to get to listen. The protest is also about fossil fuels, so from that perspective blocking a road is also relevant. In short, the place is very appropriate, and it has parallel roads so that traffic is only mildly hindered. What better place to protest against those two governments than right here?
It sounds to me you've already made your mind up and just want to complain. I remain of the opinion that what we did was our right and completely justified. We're collectively fucking up the planet, and i just want to see that changed. Instead of talking about how we protest and if it's the best way, let's just fucking stop investing in fossil fuels already. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills.",
">\n\nHave you even looked at the location?\nIt really isn't a choke point.",
">\n\nLol they interviewed a young protester who glued himself to the asphalt. He complained that the police promised that they would remove them \"softly\" but according to him it wasn't soft enough and he showed some grey/black grease on his hand.\nLike what the fuck is wrong with you? You glue yourself to the asphalt with superglue and you blame the police you got hurt (just hurt, no lasting damage or what so ever) when they removed you?\nAnother guy...\nInterviewer: Why are you protesting on the highway? You are not allowed to protest here and the municipality of the city gave you permission to protest on a designated field in the city.\nProtester: Yeah but if we block a highway we get more attention.\n*Protester continues to mock the police*\n\nYeah totally fine to protest for climate if you want to, but if you're going to block highways and annoy other civilians with your actions don't be surprised if you get a little rough treatment.",
">\n\nTo be fair, the young guy didn't as much complain as just matter-of-factly state that the police just ripped his hand off the asphalt. A strip of asphalt was still stuck to his hand. The police are literally not allowed to do that. But it wasn't a big deal and he wasn't making a drama of it",
">\n\nTried to find the video but can't find it right now. Saw it on the news this weekend.\nWhat the guy did was not allowed and he knew. Don't blame this on the police. You can see on all videos from this weekend, and there are a lot, that all protesters have been treated respectfully.\n-edit-\nWhat you see on his hands is a mix of filth from the road + glue. If you glue your hand to asphalt and rip it of it's not like the asphalt is going to go anywhere lol, if anything would let loose it would be your skin in stead of asphalt.",
">\n\nI saw the video (7:08), and I was also there Saturday. It doesn't matter that gluing your hand to the street isn't allowed, it's still protected by the right to protest. \nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest. Thats not just my opinion, European law and human rights treaties agree. Amnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\nI agree that the police acted decently most of the time. But not all of the time. What you don't see on tv but what i did see sitting there on the street is the sneaky ways police do exert some violence. Twisting your limbs, pressing your head against the street, a sneaky thumb on the nose that hurts like hell. They can be pretty vicious when they think they can get away with it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen",
">\n\n\nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest.\n\nThe protest was illegal in the first place. How is gluing yourself to a highway directly related to a protest? That does not make sense at all. If you reason in that way you can also paint-spray on public walls and call it a protest and then say \"the police can not do anything about it as it is directly related to my protest\".\nThere was an option to protest on a given place and the police would make sure you could protest in peace, but you choose to go for a highway. \n\nAmnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\n\nSorry to tell you but Amnesty International is not really a objective party and they don't have any legal authorization. Amnesty International also issued a report stating that Ukraine committed war crimes because their troops were positioned close to schools and hospitals... \nAnd the police hurting you when removing you from an illegal protest... Nobody outside the protesters really cares. You knew you were there illegal. The police asked every protester to leave voluntary, nobody did, instead people glued themselves to make it harder to remove them. Any complain about getting hurt when the police removes you is invalid upfront.\nPlay stupid games, win stupid prizes."
] |
>
Do they sit on the highway to reduce CO2 emissions that day?
Do they block traffic to gain sympathy from common people? | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills.",
">\n\nHave you even looked at the location?\nIt really isn't a choke point.",
">\n\nLol they interviewed a young protester who glued himself to the asphalt. He complained that the police promised that they would remove them \"softly\" but according to him it wasn't soft enough and he showed some grey/black grease on his hand.\nLike what the fuck is wrong with you? You glue yourself to the asphalt with superglue and you blame the police you got hurt (just hurt, no lasting damage or what so ever) when they removed you?\nAnother guy...\nInterviewer: Why are you protesting on the highway? You are not allowed to protest here and the municipality of the city gave you permission to protest on a designated field in the city.\nProtester: Yeah but if we block a highway we get more attention.\n*Protester continues to mock the police*\n\nYeah totally fine to protest for climate if you want to, but if you're going to block highways and annoy other civilians with your actions don't be surprised if you get a little rough treatment.",
">\n\nTo be fair, the young guy didn't as much complain as just matter-of-factly state that the police just ripped his hand off the asphalt. A strip of asphalt was still stuck to his hand. The police are literally not allowed to do that. But it wasn't a big deal and he wasn't making a drama of it",
">\n\nTried to find the video but can't find it right now. Saw it on the news this weekend.\nWhat the guy did was not allowed and he knew. Don't blame this on the police. You can see on all videos from this weekend, and there are a lot, that all protesters have been treated respectfully.\n-edit-\nWhat you see on his hands is a mix of filth from the road + glue. If you glue your hand to asphalt and rip it of it's not like the asphalt is going to go anywhere lol, if anything would let loose it would be your skin in stead of asphalt.",
">\n\nI saw the video (7:08), and I was also there Saturday. It doesn't matter that gluing your hand to the street isn't allowed, it's still protected by the right to protest. \nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest. Thats not just my opinion, European law and human rights treaties agree. Amnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\nI agree that the police acted decently most of the time. But not all of the time. What you don't see on tv but what i did see sitting there on the street is the sneaky ways police do exert some violence. Twisting your limbs, pressing your head against the street, a sneaky thumb on the nose that hurts like hell. They can be pretty vicious when they think they can get away with it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen",
">\n\n\nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest.\n\nThe protest was illegal in the first place. How is gluing yourself to a highway directly related to a protest? That does not make sense at all. If you reason in that way you can also paint-spray on public walls and call it a protest and then say \"the police can not do anything about it as it is directly related to my protest\".\nThere was an option to protest on a given place and the police would make sure you could protest in peace, but you choose to go for a highway. \n\nAmnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\n\nSorry to tell you but Amnesty International is not really a objective party and they don't have any legal authorization. Amnesty International also issued a report stating that Ukraine committed war crimes because their troops were positioned close to schools and hospitals... \nAnd the police hurting you when removing you from an illegal protest... Nobody outside the protesters really cares. You knew you were there illegal. The police asked every protester to leave voluntary, nobody did, instead people glued themselves to make it harder to remove them. Any complain about getting hurt when the police removes you is invalid upfront.\nPlay stupid games, win stupid prizes.",
">\n\nThe \"highway\" we blocked starts right there, coming from a big intersection with traffic lights in the city only 100m away from there. It's not like people are going 120km/h already. The spot we blocked lies right next to the ministry of economic affairs and the ministry of agriculture, the very institutions we are trying to get to listen. The protest is also about fossil fuels, so from that perspective blocking a road is also relevant. In short, the place is very appropriate, and it has parallel roads so that traffic is only mildly hindered. What better place to protest against those two governments than right here? \nIt sounds to me you've already made your mind up and just want to complain. I remain of the opinion that what we did was our right and completely justified. We're collectively fucking up the planet, and i just want to see that changed. Instead of talking about how we protest and if it's the best way, let's just fucking stop investing in fossil fuels already."
] |
>
I know you’re asking these questions rhetorically but there is a very good reason for choosing this location: it is the road directly between Parliament on one side and the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Climate Policy on the other.
The demand of the protest was to end € 17,3 billion worth of yearly fossil subsidies and tax breaks as the government committed itself to in 2009, 2013 and 2019 but spectacularly failed to deliver on. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills.",
">\n\nHave you even looked at the location?\nIt really isn't a choke point.",
">\n\nLol they interviewed a young protester who glued himself to the asphalt. He complained that the police promised that they would remove them \"softly\" but according to him it wasn't soft enough and he showed some grey/black grease on his hand.\nLike what the fuck is wrong with you? You glue yourself to the asphalt with superglue and you blame the police you got hurt (just hurt, no lasting damage or what so ever) when they removed you?\nAnother guy...\nInterviewer: Why are you protesting on the highway? You are not allowed to protest here and the municipality of the city gave you permission to protest on a designated field in the city.\nProtester: Yeah but if we block a highway we get more attention.\n*Protester continues to mock the police*\n\nYeah totally fine to protest for climate if you want to, but if you're going to block highways and annoy other civilians with your actions don't be surprised if you get a little rough treatment.",
">\n\nTo be fair, the young guy didn't as much complain as just matter-of-factly state that the police just ripped his hand off the asphalt. A strip of asphalt was still stuck to his hand. The police are literally not allowed to do that. But it wasn't a big deal and he wasn't making a drama of it",
">\n\nTried to find the video but can't find it right now. Saw it on the news this weekend.\nWhat the guy did was not allowed and he knew. Don't blame this on the police. You can see on all videos from this weekend, and there are a lot, that all protesters have been treated respectfully.\n-edit-\nWhat you see on his hands is a mix of filth from the road + glue. If you glue your hand to asphalt and rip it of it's not like the asphalt is going to go anywhere lol, if anything would let loose it would be your skin in stead of asphalt.",
">\n\nI saw the video (7:08), and I was also there Saturday. It doesn't matter that gluing your hand to the street isn't allowed, it's still protected by the right to protest. \nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest. Thats not just my opinion, European law and human rights treaties agree. Amnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\nI agree that the police acted decently most of the time. But not all of the time. What you don't see on tv but what i did see sitting there on the street is the sneaky ways police do exert some violence. Twisting your limbs, pressing your head against the street, a sneaky thumb on the nose that hurts like hell. They can be pretty vicious when they think they can get away with it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen",
">\n\n\nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest.\n\nThe protest was illegal in the first place. How is gluing yourself to a highway directly related to a protest? That does not make sense at all. If you reason in that way you can also paint-spray on public walls and call it a protest and then say \"the police can not do anything about it as it is directly related to my protest\".\nThere was an option to protest on a given place and the police would make sure you could protest in peace, but you choose to go for a highway. \n\nAmnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\n\nSorry to tell you but Amnesty International is not really a objective party and they don't have any legal authorization. Amnesty International also issued a report stating that Ukraine committed war crimes because their troops were positioned close to schools and hospitals... \nAnd the police hurting you when removing you from an illegal protest... Nobody outside the protesters really cares. You knew you were there illegal. The police asked every protester to leave voluntary, nobody did, instead people glued themselves to make it harder to remove them. Any complain about getting hurt when the police removes you is invalid upfront.\nPlay stupid games, win stupid prizes.",
">\n\nThe \"highway\" we blocked starts right there, coming from a big intersection with traffic lights in the city only 100m away from there. It's not like people are going 120km/h already. The spot we blocked lies right next to the ministry of economic affairs and the ministry of agriculture, the very institutions we are trying to get to listen. The protest is also about fossil fuels, so from that perspective blocking a road is also relevant. In short, the place is very appropriate, and it has parallel roads so that traffic is only mildly hindered. What better place to protest against those two governments than right here? \nIt sounds to me you've already made your mind up and just want to complain. I remain of the opinion that what we did was our right and completely justified. We're collectively fucking up the planet, and i just want to see that changed. Instead of talking about how we protest and if it's the best way, let's just fucking stop investing in fossil fuels already.",
">\n\nDo they sit on the highway to reduce CO2 emissions that day?\nDo they block traffic to gain sympathy from common people?"
] |
>
Lol. 17B? Got any proof of that?
Don't bother copying this guy Metten. He is very wrong with his 'calculations' | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills.",
">\n\nHave you even looked at the location?\nIt really isn't a choke point.",
">\n\nLol they interviewed a young protester who glued himself to the asphalt. He complained that the police promised that they would remove them \"softly\" but according to him it wasn't soft enough and he showed some grey/black grease on his hand.\nLike what the fuck is wrong with you? You glue yourself to the asphalt with superglue and you blame the police you got hurt (just hurt, no lasting damage or what so ever) when they removed you?\nAnother guy...\nInterviewer: Why are you protesting on the highway? You are not allowed to protest here and the municipality of the city gave you permission to protest on a designated field in the city.\nProtester: Yeah but if we block a highway we get more attention.\n*Protester continues to mock the police*\n\nYeah totally fine to protest for climate if you want to, but if you're going to block highways and annoy other civilians with your actions don't be surprised if you get a little rough treatment.",
">\n\nTo be fair, the young guy didn't as much complain as just matter-of-factly state that the police just ripped his hand off the asphalt. A strip of asphalt was still stuck to his hand. The police are literally not allowed to do that. But it wasn't a big deal and he wasn't making a drama of it",
">\n\nTried to find the video but can't find it right now. Saw it on the news this weekend.\nWhat the guy did was not allowed and he knew. Don't blame this on the police. You can see on all videos from this weekend, and there are a lot, that all protesters have been treated respectfully.\n-edit-\nWhat you see on his hands is a mix of filth from the road + glue. If you glue your hand to asphalt and rip it of it's not like the asphalt is going to go anywhere lol, if anything would let loose it would be your skin in stead of asphalt.",
">\n\nI saw the video (7:08), and I was also there Saturday. It doesn't matter that gluing your hand to the street isn't allowed, it's still protected by the right to protest. \nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest. Thats not just my opinion, European law and human rights treaties agree. Amnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\nI agree that the police acted decently most of the time. But not all of the time. What you don't see on tv but what i did see sitting there on the street is the sneaky ways police do exert some violence. Twisting your limbs, pressing your head against the street, a sneaky thumb on the nose that hurts like hell. They can be pretty vicious when they think they can get away with it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen",
">\n\n\nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest.\n\nThe protest was illegal in the first place. How is gluing yourself to a highway directly related to a protest? That does not make sense at all. If you reason in that way you can also paint-spray on public walls and call it a protest and then say \"the police can not do anything about it as it is directly related to my protest\".\nThere was an option to protest on a given place and the police would make sure you could protest in peace, but you choose to go for a highway. \n\nAmnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\n\nSorry to tell you but Amnesty International is not really a objective party and they don't have any legal authorization. Amnesty International also issued a report stating that Ukraine committed war crimes because their troops were positioned close to schools and hospitals... \nAnd the police hurting you when removing you from an illegal protest... Nobody outside the protesters really cares. You knew you were there illegal. The police asked every protester to leave voluntary, nobody did, instead people glued themselves to make it harder to remove them. Any complain about getting hurt when the police removes you is invalid upfront.\nPlay stupid games, win stupid prizes.",
">\n\nThe \"highway\" we blocked starts right there, coming from a big intersection with traffic lights in the city only 100m away from there. It's not like people are going 120km/h already. The spot we blocked lies right next to the ministry of economic affairs and the ministry of agriculture, the very institutions we are trying to get to listen. The protest is also about fossil fuels, so from that perspective blocking a road is also relevant. In short, the place is very appropriate, and it has parallel roads so that traffic is only mildly hindered. What better place to protest against those two governments than right here? \nIt sounds to me you've already made your mind up and just want to complain. I remain of the opinion that what we did was our right and completely justified. We're collectively fucking up the planet, and i just want to see that changed. Instead of talking about how we protest and if it's the best way, let's just fucking stop investing in fossil fuels already.",
">\n\nDo they sit on the highway to reduce CO2 emissions that day?\nDo they block traffic to gain sympathy from common people?",
">\n\nI know you’re asking these questions rhetorically but there is a very good reason for choosing this location: it is the road directly between Parliament on one side and the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Climate Policy on the other.\nThe demand of the protest was to end € 17,3 billion worth of yearly fossil subsidies and tax breaks as the government committed itself to in 2009, 2013 and 2019 but spectacularly failed to deliver on."
] |
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No group should be allowed to block passage. And, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me. But, they need to be consistent in their enforcement. We should not see farmers receiving different treatment. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills.",
">\n\nHave you even looked at the location?\nIt really isn't a choke point.",
">\n\nLol they interviewed a young protester who glued himself to the asphalt. He complained that the police promised that they would remove them \"softly\" but according to him it wasn't soft enough and he showed some grey/black grease on his hand.\nLike what the fuck is wrong with you? You glue yourself to the asphalt with superglue and you blame the police you got hurt (just hurt, no lasting damage or what so ever) when they removed you?\nAnother guy...\nInterviewer: Why are you protesting on the highway? You are not allowed to protest here and the municipality of the city gave you permission to protest on a designated field in the city.\nProtester: Yeah but if we block a highway we get more attention.\n*Protester continues to mock the police*\n\nYeah totally fine to protest for climate if you want to, but if you're going to block highways and annoy other civilians with your actions don't be surprised if you get a little rough treatment.",
">\n\nTo be fair, the young guy didn't as much complain as just matter-of-factly state that the police just ripped his hand off the asphalt. A strip of asphalt was still stuck to his hand. The police are literally not allowed to do that. But it wasn't a big deal and he wasn't making a drama of it",
">\n\nTried to find the video but can't find it right now. Saw it on the news this weekend.\nWhat the guy did was not allowed and he knew. Don't blame this on the police. You can see on all videos from this weekend, and there are a lot, that all protesters have been treated respectfully.\n-edit-\nWhat you see on his hands is a mix of filth from the road + glue. If you glue your hand to asphalt and rip it of it's not like the asphalt is going to go anywhere lol, if anything would let loose it would be your skin in stead of asphalt.",
">\n\nI saw the video (7:08), and I was also there Saturday. It doesn't matter that gluing your hand to the street isn't allowed, it's still protected by the right to protest. \nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest. Thats not just my opinion, European law and human rights treaties agree. Amnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\nI agree that the police acted decently most of the time. But not all of the time. What you don't see on tv but what i did see sitting there on the street is the sneaky ways police do exert some violence. Twisting your limbs, pressing your head against the street, a sneaky thumb on the nose that hurts like hell. They can be pretty vicious when they think they can get away with it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen",
">\n\n\nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest.\n\nThe protest was illegal in the first place. How is gluing yourself to a highway directly related to a protest? That does not make sense at all. If you reason in that way you can also paint-spray on public walls and call it a protest and then say \"the police can not do anything about it as it is directly related to my protest\".\nThere was an option to protest on a given place and the police would make sure you could protest in peace, but you choose to go for a highway. \n\nAmnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\n\nSorry to tell you but Amnesty International is not really a objective party and they don't have any legal authorization. Amnesty International also issued a report stating that Ukraine committed war crimes because their troops were positioned close to schools and hospitals... \nAnd the police hurting you when removing you from an illegal protest... Nobody outside the protesters really cares. You knew you were there illegal. The police asked every protester to leave voluntary, nobody did, instead people glued themselves to make it harder to remove them. Any complain about getting hurt when the police removes you is invalid upfront.\nPlay stupid games, win stupid prizes.",
">\n\nThe \"highway\" we blocked starts right there, coming from a big intersection with traffic lights in the city only 100m away from there. It's not like people are going 120km/h already. The spot we blocked lies right next to the ministry of economic affairs and the ministry of agriculture, the very institutions we are trying to get to listen. The protest is also about fossil fuels, so from that perspective blocking a road is also relevant. In short, the place is very appropriate, and it has parallel roads so that traffic is only mildly hindered. What better place to protest against those two governments than right here? \nIt sounds to me you've already made your mind up and just want to complain. I remain of the opinion that what we did was our right and completely justified. We're collectively fucking up the planet, and i just want to see that changed. Instead of talking about how we protest and if it's the best way, let's just fucking stop investing in fossil fuels already.",
">\n\nDo they sit on the highway to reduce CO2 emissions that day?\nDo they block traffic to gain sympathy from common people?",
">\n\nI know you’re asking these questions rhetorically but there is a very good reason for choosing this location: it is the road directly between Parliament on one side and the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Climate Policy on the other.\nThe demand of the protest was to end € 17,3 billion worth of yearly fossil subsidies and tax breaks as the government committed itself to in 2009, 2013 and 2019 but spectacularly failed to deliver on.",
">\n\nLol. 17B? Got any proof of that?\nDon't bother copying this guy Metten. He is very wrong with his 'calculations'"
] |
>
And, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me.
Go tell that to the sea level. I am sure it will stop rising. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills.",
">\n\nHave you even looked at the location?\nIt really isn't a choke point.",
">\n\nLol they interviewed a young protester who glued himself to the asphalt. He complained that the police promised that they would remove them \"softly\" but according to him it wasn't soft enough and he showed some grey/black grease on his hand.\nLike what the fuck is wrong with you? You glue yourself to the asphalt with superglue and you blame the police you got hurt (just hurt, no lasting damage or what so ever) when they removed you?\nAnother guy...\nInterviewer: Why are you protesting on the highway? You are not allowed to protest here and the municipality of the city gave you permission to protest on a designated field in the city.\nProtester: Yeah but if we block a highway we get more attention.\n*Protester continues to mock the police*\n\nYeah totally fine to protest for climate if you want to, but if you're going to block highways and annoy other civilians with your actions don't be surprised if you get a little rough treatment.",
">\n\nTo be fair, the young guy didn't as much complain as just matter-of-factly state that the police just ripped his hand off the asphalt. A strip of asphalt was still stuck to his hand. The police are literally not allowed to do that. But it wasn't a big deal and he wasn't making a drama of it",
">\n\nTried to find the video but can't find it right now. Saw it on the news this weekend.\nWhat the guy did was not allowed and he knew. Don't blame this on the police. You can see on all videos from this weekend, and there are a lot, that all protesters have been treated respectfully.\n-edit-\nWhat you see on his hands is a mix of filth from the road + glue. If you glue your hand to asphalt and rip it of it's not like the asphalt is going to go anywhere lol, if anything would let loose it would be your skin in stead of asphalt.",
">\n\nI saw the video (7:08), and I was also there Saturday. It doesn't matter that gluing your hand to the street isn't allowed, it's still protected by the right to protest. \nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest. Thats not just my opinion, European law and human rights treaties agree. Amnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\nI agree that the police acted decently most of the time. But not all of the time. What you don't see on tv but what i did see sitting there on the street is the sneaky ways police do exert some violence. Twisting your limbs, pressing your head against the street, a sneaky thumb on the nose that hurts like hell. They can be pretty vicious when they think they can get away with it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen",
">\n\n\nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest.\n\nThe protest was illegal in the first place. How is gluing yourself to a highway directly related to a protest? That does not make sense at all. If you reason in that way you can also paint-spray on public walls and call it a protest and then say \"the police can not do anything about it as it is directly related to my protest\".\nThere was an option to protest on a given place and the police would make sure you could protest in peace, but you choose to go for a highway. \n\nAmnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\n\nSorry to tell you but Amnesty International is not really a objective party and they don't have any legal authorization. Amnesty International also issued a report stating that Ukraine committed war crimes because their troops were positioned close to schools and hospitals... \nAnd the police hurting you when removing you from an illegal protest... Nobody outside the protesters really cares. You knew you were there illegal. The police asked every protester to leave voluntary, nobody did, instead people glued themselves to make it harder to remove them. Any complain about getting hurt when the police removes you is invalid upfront.\nPlay stupid games, win stupid prizes.",
">\n\nThe \"highway\" we blocked starts right there, coming from a big intersection with traffic lights in the city only 100m away from there. It's not like people are going 120km/h already. The spot we blocked lies right next to the ministry of economic affairs and the ministry of agriculture, the very institutions we are trying to get to listen. The protest is also about fossil fuels, so from that perspective blocking a road is also relevant. In short, the place is very appropriate, and it has parallel roads so that traffic is only mildly hindered. What better place to protest against those two governments than right here? \nIt sounds to me you've already made your mind up and just want to complain. I remain of the opinion that what we did was our right and completely justified. We're collectively fucking up the planet, and i just want to see that changed. Instead of talking about how we protest and if it's the best way, let's just fucking stop investing in fossil fuels already.",
">\n\nDo they sit on the highway to reduce CO2 emissions that day?\nDo they block traffic to gain sympathy from common people?",
">\n\nI know you’re asking these questions rhetorically but there is a very good reason for choosing this location: it is the road directly between Parliament on one side and the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Climate Policy on the other.\nThe demand of the protest was to end € 17,3 billion worth of yearly fossil subsidies and tax breaks as the government committed itself to in 2009, 2013 and 2019 but spectacularly failed to deliver on.",
">\n\nLol. 17B? Got any proof of that?\nDon't bother copying this guy Metten. He is very wrong with his 'calculations'",
">\n\nNo group should be allowed to block passage. And, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me. But, they need to be consistent in their enforcement. We should not see farmers receiving different treatment."
] |
>
Well, if they were arrested for blocking the motorway I'm all for it, this needs to stop, these idiots need to learn one way or the other that it's not ok to make life impossible to people who are just going to work, and worse, risking causing actual damages by blocking roads. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills.",
">\n\nHave you even looked at the location?\nIt really isn't a choke point.",
">\n\nLol they interviewed a young protester who glued himself to the asphalt. He complained that the police promised that they would remove them \"softly\" but according to him it wasn't soft enough and he showed some grey/black grease on his hand.\nLike what the fuck is wrong with you? You glue yourself to the asphalt with superglue and you blame the police you got hurt (just hurt, no lasting damage or what so ever) when they removed you?\nAnother guy...\nInterviewer: Why are you protesting on the highway? You are not allowed to protest here and the municipality of the city gave you permission to protest on a designated field in the city.\nProtester: Yeah but if we block a highway we get more attention.\n*Protester continues to mock the police*\n\nYeah totally fine to protest for climate if you want to, but if you're going to block highways and annoy other civilians with your actions don't be surprised if you get a little rough treatment.",
">\n\nTo be fair, the young guy didn't as much complain as just matter-of-factly state that the police just ripped his hand off the asphalt. A strip of asphalt was still stuck to his hand. The police are literally not allowed to do that. But it wasn't a big deal and he wasn't making a drama of it",
">\n\nTried to find the video but can't find it right now. Saw it on the news this weekend.\nWhat the guy did was not allowed and he knew. Don't blame this on the police. You can see on all videos from this weekend, and there are a lot, that all protesters have been treated respectfully.\n-edit-\nWhat you see on his hands is a mix of filth from the road + glue. If you glue your hand to asphalt and rip it of it's not like the asphalt is going to go anywhere lol, if anything would let loose it would be your skin in stead of asphalt.",
">\n\nI saw the video (7:08), and I was also there Saturday. It doesn't matter that gluing your hand to the street isn't allowed, it's still protected by the right to protest. \nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest. Thats not just my opinion, European law and human rights treaties agree. Amnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\nI agree that the police acted decently most of the time. But not all of the time. What you don't see on tv but what i did see sitting there on the street is the sneaky ways police do exert some violence. Twisting your limbs, pressing your head against the street, a sneaky thumb on the nose that hurts like hell. They can be pretty vicious when they think they can get away with it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen",
">\n\n\nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest.\n\nThe protest was illegal in the first place. How is gluing yourself to a highway directly related to a protest? That does not make sense at all. If you reason in that way you can also paint-spray on public walls and call it a protest and then say \"the police can not do anything about it as it is directly related to my protest\".\nThere was an option to protest on a given place and the police would make sure you could protest in peace, but you choose to go for a highway. \n\nAmnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\n\nSorry to tell you but Amnesty International is not really a objective party and they don't have any legal authorization. Amnesty International also issued a report stating that Ukraine committed war crimes because their troops were positioned close to schools and hospitals... \nAnd the police hurting you when removing you from an illegal protest... Nobody outside the protesters really cares. You knew you were there illegal. The police asked every protester to leave voluntary, nobody did, instead people glued themselves to make it harder to remove them. Any complain about getting hurt when the police removes you is invalid upfront.\nPlay stupid games, win stupid prizes.",
">\n\nThe \"highway\" we blocked starts right there, coming from a big intersection with traffic lights in the city only 100m away from there. It's not like people are going 120km/h already. The spot we blocked lies right next to the ministry of economic affairs and the ministry of agriculture, the very institutions we are trying to get to listen. The protest is also about fossil fuels, so from that perspective blocking a road is also relevant. In short, the place is very appropriate, and it has parallel roads so that traffic is only mildly hindered. What better place to protest against those two governments than right here? \nIt sounds to me you've already made your mind up and just want to complain. I remain of the opinion that what we did was our right and completely justified. We're collectively fucking up the planet, and i just want to see that changed. Instead of talking about how we protest and if it's the best way, let's just fucking stop investing in fossil fuels already.",
">\n\nDo they sit on the highway to reduce CO2 emissions that day?\nDo they block traffic to gain sympathy from common people?",
">\n\nI know you’re asking these questions rhetorically but there is a very good reason for choosing this location: it is the road directly between Parliament on one side and the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Climate Policy on the other.\nThe demand of the protest was to end € 17,3 billion worth of yearly fossil subsidies and tax breaks as the government committed itself to in 2009, 2013 and 2019 but spectacularly failed to deliver on.",
">\n\nLol. 17B? Got any proof of that?\nDon't bother copying this guy Metten. He is very wrong with his 'calculations'",
">\n\nNo group should be allowed to block passage. And, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me. But, they need to be consistent in their enforcement. We should not see farmers receiving different treatment.",
">\n\n\nAnd, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me.\n\nGo tell that to the sea level. I am sure it will stop rising."
] |
>
No one made life impossible. It would have been a 20 minute detour. According to your logic railworkers should not be allowed to protest either(only the US with its barbaric laws prohibts that) | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills.",
">\n\nHave you even looked at the location?\nIt really isn't a choke point.",
">\n\nLol they interviewed a young protester who glued himself to the asphalt. He complained that the police promised that they would remove them \"softly\" but according to him it wasn't soft enough and he showed some grey/black grease on his hand.\nLike what the fuck is wrong with you? You glue yourself to the asphalt with superglue and you blame the police you got hurt (just hurt, no lasting damage or what so ever) when they removed you?\nAnother guy...\nInterviewer: Why are you protesting on the highway? You are not allowed to protest here and the municipality of the city gave you permission to protest on a designated field in the city.\nProtester: Yeah but if we block a highway we get more attention.\n*Protester continues to mock the police*\n\nYeah totally fine to protest for climate if you want to, but if you're going to block highways and annoy other civilians with your actions don't be surprised if you get a little rough treatment.",
">\n\nTo be fair, the young guy didn't as much complain as just matter-of-factly state that the police just ripped his hand off the asphalt. A strip of asphalt was still stuck to his hand. The police are literally not allowed to do that. But it wasn't a big deal and he wasn't making a drama of it",
">\n\nTried to find the video but can't find it right now. Saw it on the news this weekend.\nWhat the guy did was not allowed and he knew. Don't blame this on the police. You can see on all videos from this weekend, and there are a lot, that all protesters have been treated respectfully.\n-edit-\nWhat you see on his hands is a mix of filth from the road + glue. If you glue your hand to asphalt and rip it of it's not like the asphalt is going to go anywhere lol, if anything would let loose it would be your skin in stead of asphalt.",
">\n\nI saw the video (7:08), and I was also there Saturday. It doesn't matter that gluing your hand to the street isn't allowed, it's still protected by the right to protest. \nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest. Thats not just my opinion, European law and human rights treaties agree. Amnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\nI agree that the police acted decently most of the time. But not all of the time. What you don't see on tv but what i did see sitting there on the street is the sneaky ways police do exert some violence. Twisting your limbs, pressing your head against the street, a sneaky thumb on the nose that hurts like hell. They can be pretty vicious when they think they can get away with it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen",
">\n\n\nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest.\n\nThe protest was illegal in the first place. How is gluing yourself to a highway directly related to a protest? That does not make sense at all. If you reason in that way you can also paint-spray on public walls and call it a protest and then say \"the police can not do anything about it as it is directly related to my protest\".\nThere was an option to protest on a given place and the police would make sure you could protest in peace, but you choose to go for a highway. \n\nAmnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\n\nSorry to tell you but Amnesty International is not really a objective party and they don't have any legal authorization. Amnesty International also issued a report stating that Ukraine committed war crimes because their troops were positioned close to schools and hospitals... \nAnd the police hurting you when removing you from an illegal protest... Nobody outside the protesters really cares. You knew you were there illegal. The police asked every protester to leave voluntary, nobody did, instead people glued themselves to make it harder to remove them. Any complain about getting hurt when the police removes you is invalid upfront.\nPlay stupid games, win stupid prizes.",
">\n\nThe \"highway\" we blocked starts right there, coming from a big intersection with traffic lights in the city only 100m away from there. It's not like people are going 120km/h already. The spot we blocked lies right next to the ministry of economic affairs and the ministry of agriculture, the very institutions we are trying to get to listen. The protest is also about fossil fuels, so from that perspective blocking a road is also relevant. In short, the place is very appropriate, and it has parallel roads so that traffic is only mildly hindered. What better place to protest against those two governments than right here? \nIt sounds to me you've already made your mind up and just want to complain. I remain of the opinion that what we did was our right and completely justified. We're collectively fucking up the planet, and i just want to see that changed. Instead of talking about how we protest and if it's the best way, let's just fucking stop investing in fossil fuels already.",
">\n\nDo they sit on the highway to reduce CO2 emissions that day?\nDo they block traffic to gain sympathy from common people?",
">\n\nI know you’re asking these questions rhetorically but there is a very good reason for choosing this location: it is the road directly between Parliament on one side and the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Climate Policy on the other.\nThe demand of the protest was to end € 17,3 billion worth of yearly fossil subsidies and tax breaks as the government committed itself to in 2009, 2013 and 2019 but spectacularly failed to deliver on.",
">\n\nLol. 17B? Got any proof of that?\nDon't bother copying this guy Metten. He is very wrong with his 'calculations'",
">\n\nNo group should be allowed to block passage. And, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me. But, they need to be consistent in their enforcement. We should not see farmers receiving different treatment.",
">\n\n\nAnd, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me.\n\nGo tell that to the sea level. I am sure it will stop rising.",
">\n\nWell, if they were arrested for blocking the motorway I'm all for it, this needs to stop, these idiots need to learn one way or the other that it's not ok to make life impossible to people who are just going to work, and worse, risking causing actual damages by blocking roads."
] |
>
you do realize you can't reverse on certain roads, right? This is stupid for so many reasons, one of them is that they're pissing off people, turning them against them. And what if there's an ambulance that has to pass through? Do these idiots realize the possible implications? No, because they're idiots. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills.",
">\n\nHave you even looked at the location?\nIt really isn't a choke point.",
">\n\nLol they interviewed a young protester who glued himself to the asphalt. He complained that the police promised that they would remove them \"softly\" but according to him it wasn't soft enough and he showed some grey/black grease on his hand.\nLike what the fuck is wrong with you? You glue yourself to the asphalt with superglue and you blame the police you got hurt (just hurt, no lasting damage or what so ever) when they removed you?\nAnother guy...\nInterviewer: Why are you protesting on the highway? You are not allowed to protest here and the municipality of the city gave you permission to protest on a designated field in the city.\nProtester: Yeah but if we block a highway we get more attention.\n*Protester continues to mock the police*\n\nYeah totally fine to protest for climate if you want to, but if you're going to block highways and annoy other civilians with your actions don't be surprised if you get a little rough treatment.",
">\n\nTo be fair, the young guy didn't as much complain as just matter-of-factly state that the police just ripped his hand off the asphalt. A strip of asphalt was still stuck to his hand. The police are literally not allowed to do that. But it wasn't a big deal and he wasn't making a drama of it",
">\n\nTried to find the video but can't find it right now. Saw it on the news this weekend.\nWhat the guy did was not allowed and he knew. Don't blame this on the police. You can see on all videos from this weekend, and there are a lot, that all protesters have been treated respectfully.\n-edit-\nWhat you see on his hands is a mix of filth from the road + glue. If you glue your hand to asphalt and rip it of it's not like the asphalt is going to go anywhere lol, if anything would let loose it would be your skin in stead of asphalt.",
">\n\nI saw the video (7:08), and I was also there Saturday. It doesn't matter that gluing your hand to the street isn't allowed, it's still protected by the right to protest. \nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest. Thats not just my opinion, European law and human rights treaties agree. Amnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\nI agree that the police acted decently most of the time. But not all of the time. What you don't see on tv but what i did see sitting there on the street is the sneaky ways police do exert some violence. Twisting your limbs, pressing your head against the street, a sneaky thumb on the nose that hurts like hell. They can be pretty vicious when they think they can get away with it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen",
">\n\n\nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest.\n\nThe protest was illegal in the first place. How is gluing yourself to a highway directly related to a protest? That does not make sense at all. If you reason in that way you can also paint-spray on public walls and call it a protest and then say \"the police can not do anything about it as it is directly related to my protest\".\nThere was an option to protest on a given place and the police would make sure you could protest in peace, but you choose to go for a highway. \n\nAmnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\n\nSorry to tell you but Amnesty International is not really a objective party and they don't have any legal authorization. Amnesty International also issued a report stating that Ukraine committed war crimes because their troops were positioned close to schools and hospitals... \nAnd the police hurting you when removing you from an illegal protest... Nobody outside the protesters really cares. You knew you were there illegal. The police asked every protester to leave voluntary, nobody did, instead people glued themselves to make it harder to remove them. Any complain about getting hurt when the police removes you is invalid upfront.\nPlay stupid games, win stupid prizes.",
">\n\nThe \"highway\" we blocked starts right there, coming from a big intersection with traffic lights in the city only 100m away from there. It's not like people are going 120km/h already. The spot we blocked lies right next to the ministry of economic affairs and the ministry of agriculture, the very institutions we are trying to get to listen. The protest is also about fossil fuels, so from that perspective blocking a road is also relevant. In short, the place is very appropriate, and it has parallel roads so that traffic is only mildly hindered. What better place to protest against those two governments than right here? \nIt sounds to me you've already made your mind up and just want to complain. I remain of the opinion that what we did was our right and completely justified. We're collectively fucking up the planet, and i just want to see that changed. Instead of talking about how we protest and if it's the best way, let's just fucking stop investing in fossil fuels already.",
">\n\nDo they sit on the highway to reduce CO2 emissions that day?\nDo they block traffic to gain sympathy from common people?",
">\n\nI know you’re asking these questions rhetorically but there is a very good reason for choosing this location: it is the road directly between Parliament on one side and the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Climate Policy on the other.\nThe demand of the protest was to end € 17,3 billion worth of yearly fossil subsidies and tax breaks as the government committed itself to in 2009, 2013 and 2019 but spectacularly failed to deliver on.",
">\n\nLol. 17B? Got any proof of that?\nDon't bother copying this guy Metten. He is very wrong with his 'calculations'",
">\n\nNo group should be allowed to block passage. And, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me. But, they need to be consistent in their enforcement. We should not see farmers receiving different treatment.",
">\n\n\nAnd, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me.\n\nGo tell that to the sea level. I am sure it will stop rising.",
">\n\nWell, if they were arrested for blocking the motorway I'm all for it, this needs to stop, these idiots need to learn one way or the other that it's not ok to make life impossible to people who are just going to work, and worse, risking causing actual damages by blocking roads.",
">\n\nNo one made life impossible. It would have been a 20 minute detour. According to your logic railworkers should not be allowed to protest either(only the US with its barbaric laws prohibts that)"
] |
>
You’re telling me, if you and a bunch of people block a highway, you’ll get arrested?! Woahhh what? | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills.",
">\n\nHave you even looked at the location?\nIt really isn't a choke point.",
">\n\nLol they interviewed a young protester who glued himself to the asphalt. He complained that the police promised that they would remove them \"softly\" but according to him it wasn't soft enough and he showed some grey/black grease on his hand.\nLike what the fuck is wrong with you? You glue yourself to the asphalt with superglue and you blame the police you got hurt (just hurt, no lasting damage or what so ever) when they removed you?\nAnother guy...\nInterviewer: Why are you protesting on the highway? You are not allowed to protest here and the municipality of the city gave you permission to protest on a designated field in the city.\nProtester: Yeah but if we block a highway we get more attention.\n*Protester continues to mock the police*\n\nYeah totally fine to protest for climate if you want to, but if you're going to block highways and annoy other civilians with your actions don't be surprised if you get a little rough treatment.",
">\n\nTo be fair, the young guy didn't as much complain as just matter-of-factly state that the police just ripped his hand off the asphalt. A strip of asphalt was still stuck to his hand. The police are literally not allowed to do that. But it wasn't a big deal and he wasn't making a drama of it",
">\n\nTried to find the video but can't find it right now. Saw it on the news this weekend.\nWhat the guy did was not allowed and he knew. Don't blame this on the police. You can see on all videos from this weekend, and there are a lot, that all protesters have been treated respectfully.\n-edit-\nWhat you see on his hands is a mix of filth from the road + glue. If you glue your hand to asphalt and rip it of it's not like the asphalt is going to go anywhere lol, if anything would let loose it would be your skin in stead of asphalt.",
">\n\nI saw the video (7:08), and I was also there Saturday. It doesn't matter that gluing your hand to the street isn't allowed, it's still protected by the right to protest. \nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest. Thats not just my opinion, European law and human rights treaties agree. Amnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\nI agree that the police acted decently most of the time. But not all of the time. What you don't see on tv but what i did see sitting there on the street is the sneaky ways police do exert some violence. Twisting your limbs, pressing your head against the street, a sneaky thumb on the nose that hurts like hell. They can be pretty vicious when they think they can get away with it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen",
">\n\n\nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest.\n\nThe protest was illegal in the first place. How is gluing yourself to a highway directly related to a protest? That does not make sense at all. If you reason in that way you can also paint-spray on public walls and call it a protest and then say \"the police can not do anything about it as it is directly related to my protest\".\nThere was an option to protest on a given place and the police would make sure you could protest in peace, but you choose to go for a highway. \n\nAmnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\n\nSorry to tell you but Amnesty International is not really a objective party and they don't have any legal authorization. Amnesty International also issued a report stating that Ukraine committed war crimes because their troops were positioned close to schools and hospitals... \nAnd the police hurting you when removing you from an illegal protest... Nobody outside the protesters really cares. You knew you were there illegal. The police asked every protester to leave voluntary, nobody did, instead people glued themselves to make it harder to remove them. Any complain about getting hurt when the police removes you is invalid upfront.\nPlay stupid games, win stupid prizes.",
">\n\nThe \"highway\" we blocked starts right there, coming from a big intersection with traffic lights in the city only 100m away from there. It's not like people are going 120km/h already. The spot we blocked lies right next to the ministry of economic affairs and the ministry of agriculture, the very institutions we are trying to get to listen. The protest is also about fossil fuels, so from that perspective blocking a road is also relevant. In short, the place is very appropriate, and it has parallel roads so that traffic is only mildly hindered. What better place to protest against those two governments than right here? \nIt sounds to me you've already made your mind up and just want to complain. I remain of the opinion that what we did was our right and completely justified. We're collectively fucking up the planet, and i just want to see that changed. Instead of talking about how we protest and if it's the best way, let's just fucking stop investing in fossil fuels already.",
">\n\nDo they sit on the highway to reduce CO2 emissions that day?\nDo they block traffic to gain sympathy from common people?",
">\n\nI know you’re asking these questions rhetorically but there is a very good reason for choosing this location: it is the road directly between Parliament on one side and the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Climate Policy on the other.\nThe demand of the protest was to end € 17,3 billion worth of yearly fossil subsidies and tax breaks as the government committed itself to in 2009, 2013 and 2019 but spectacularly failed to deliver on.",
">\n\nLol. 17B? Got any proof of that?\nDon't bother copying this guy Metten. He is very wrong with his 'calculations'",
">\n\nNo group should be allowed to block passage. And, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me. But, they need to be consistent in their enforcement. We should not see farmers receiving different treatment.",
">\n\n\nAnd, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me.\n\nGo tell that to the sea level. I am sure it will stop rising.",
">\n\nWell, if they were arrested for blocking the motorway I'm all for it, this needs to stop, these idiots need to learn one way or the other that it's not ok to make life impossible to people who are just going to work, and worse, risking causing actual damages by blocking roads.",
">\n\nNo one made life impossible. It would have been a 20 minute detour. According to your logic railworkers should not be allowed to protest either(only the US with its barbaric laws prohibts that)",
">\n\nyou do realize you can't reverse on certain roads, right? This is stupid for so many reasons, one of them is that they're pissing off people, turning them against them. And what if there's an ambulance that has to pass through? Do these idiots realize the possible implications? No, because they're idiots."
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This thread has convinced me that humanity deserves extinction | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills.",
">\n\nHave you even looked at the location?\nIt really isn't a choke point.",
">\n\nLol they interviewed a young protester who glued himself to the asphalt. He complained that the police promised that they would remove them \"softly\" but according to him it wasn't soft enough and he showed some grey/black grease on his hand.\nLike what the fuck is wrong with you? You glue yourself to the asphalt with superglue and you blame the police you got hurt (just hurt, no lasting damage or what so ever) when they removed you?\nAnother guy...\nInterviewer: Why are you protesting on the highway? You are not allowed to protest here and the municipality of the city gave you permission to protest on a designated field in the city.\nProtester: Yeah but if we block a highway we get more attention.\n*Protester continues to mock the police*\n\nYeah totally fine to protest for climate if you want to, but if you're going to block highways and annoy other civilians with your actions don't be surprised if you get a little rough treatment.",
">\n\nTo be fair, the young guy didn't as much complain as just matter-of-factly state that the police just ripped his hand off the asphalt. A strip of asphalt was still stuck to his hand. The police are literally not allowed to do that. But it wasn't a big deal and he wasn't making a drama of it",
">\n\nTried to find the video but can't find it right now. Saw it on the news this weekend.\nWhat the guy did was not allowed and he knew. Don't blame this on the police. You can see on all videos from this weekend, and there are a lot, that all protesters have been treated respectfully.\n-edit-\nWhat you see on his hands is a mix of filth from the road + glue. If you glue your hand to asphalt and rip it of it's not like the asphalt is going to go anywhere lol, if anything would let loose it would be your skin in stead of asphalt.",
">\n\nI saw the video (7:08), and I was also there Saturday. It doesn't matter that gluing your hand to the street isn't allowed, it's still protected by the right to protest. \nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest. Thats not just my opinion, European law and human rights treaties agree. Amnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\nI agree that the police acted decently most of the time. But not all of the time. What you don't see on tv but what i did see sitting there on the street is the sneaky ways police do exert some violence. Twisting your limbs, pressing your head against the street, a sneaky thumb on the nose that hurts like hell. They can be pretty vicious when they think they can get away with it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen",
">\n\n\nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest.\n\nThe protest was illegal in the first place. How is gluing yourself to a highway directly related to a protest? That does not make sense at all. If you reason in that way you can also paint-spray on public walls and call it a protest and then say \"the police can not do anything about it as it is directly related to my protest\".\nThere was an option to protest on a given place and the police would make sure you could protest in peace, but you choose to go for a highway. \n\nAmnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\n\nSorry to tell you but Amnesty International is not really a objective party and they don't have any legal authorization. Amnesty International also issued a report stating that Ukraine committed war crimes because their troops were positioned close to schools and hospitals... \nAnd the police hurting you when removing you from an illegal protest... Nobody outside the protesters really cares. You knew you were there illegal. The police asked every protester to leave voluntary, nobody did, instead people glued themselves to make it harder to remove them. Any complain about getting hurt when the police removes you is invalid upfront.\nPlay stupid games, win stupid prizes.",
">\n\nThe \"highway\" we blocked starts right there, coming from a big intersection with traffic lights in the city only 100m away from there. It's not like people are going 120km/h already. The spot we blocked lies right next to the ministry of economic affairs and the ministry of agriculture, the very institutions we are trying to get to listen. The protest is also about fossil fuels, so from that perspective blocking a road is also relevant. In short, the place is very appropriate, and it has parallel roads so that traffic is only mildly hindered. What better place to protest against those two governments than right here? \nIt sounds to me you've already made your mind up and just want to complain. I remain of the opinion that what we did was our right and completely justified. We're collectively fucking up the planet, and i just want to see that changed. Instead of talking about how we protest and if it's the best way, let's just fucking stop investing in fossil fuels already.",
">\n\nDo they sit on the highway to reduce CO2 emissions that day?\nDo they block traffic to gain sympathy from common people?",
">\n\nI know you’re asking these questions rhetorically but there is a very good reason for choosing this location: it is the road directly between Parliament on one side and the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Climate Policy on the other.\nThe demand of the protest was to end € 17,3 billion worth of yearly fossil subsidies and tax breaks as the government committed itself to in 2009, 2013 and 2019 but spectacularly failed to deliver on.",
">\n\nLol. 17B? Got any proof of that?\nDon't bother copying this guy Metten. He is very wrong with his 'calculations'",
">\n\nNo group should be allowed to block passage. And, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me. But, they need to be consistent in their enforcement. We should not see farmers receiving different treatment.",
">\n\n\nAnd, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me.\n\nGo tell that to the sea level. I am sure it will stop rising.",
">\n\nWell, if they were arrested for blocking the motorway I'm all for it, this needs to stop, these idiots need to learn one way or the other that it's not ok to make life impossible to people who are just going to work, and worse, risking causing actual damages by blocking roads.",
">\n\nNo one made life impossible. It would have been a 20 minute detour. According to your logic railworkers should not be allowed to protest either(only the US with its barbaric laws prohibts that)",
">\n\nyou do realize you can't reverse on certain roads, right? This is stupid for so many reasons, one of them is that they're pissing off people, turning them against them. And what if there's an ambulance that has to pass through? Do these idiots realize the possible implications? No, because they're idiots.",
">\n\nYou’re telling me, if you and a bunch of people block a highway, you’ll get arrested?! Woahhh what?"
] |
>
I love all the non-traffic engineers gas lighting people in this thread how blocking a road doesn’t cause issues or delays. Funny how one car accident in a downtown area can cause half an hours of backups but apparently protests that you agree with are easily avoided by omniscient and efficient motorists. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills.",
">\n\nHave you even looked at the location?\nIt really isn't a choke point.",
">\n\nLol they interviewed a young protester who glued himself to the asphalt. He complained that the police promised that they would remove them \"softly\" but according to him it wasn't soft enough and he showed some grey/black grease on his hand.\nLike what the fuck is wrong with you? You glue yourself to the asphalt with superglue and you blame the police you got hurt (just hurt, no lasting damage or what so ever) when they removed you?\nAnother guy...\nInterviewer: Why are you protesting on the highway? You are not allowed to protest here and the municipality of the city gave you permission to protest on a designated field in the city.\nProtester: Yeah but if we block a highway we get more attention.\n*Protester continues to mock the police*\n\nYeah totally fine to protest for climate if you want to, but if you're going to block highways and annoy other civilians with your actions don't be surprised if you get a little rough treatment.",
">\n\nTo be fair, the young guy didn't as much complain as just matter-of-factly state that the police just ripped his hand off the asphalt. A strip of asphalt was still stuck to his hand. The police are literally not allowed to do that. But it wasn't a big deal and he wasn't making a drama of it",
">\n\nTried to find the video but can't find it right now. Saw it on the news this weekend.\nWhat the guy did was not allowed and he knew. Don't blame this on the police. You can see on all videos from this weekend, and there are a lot, that all protesters have been treated respectfully.\n-edit-\nWhat you see on his hands is a mix of filth from the road + glue. If you glue your hand to asphalt and rip it of it's not like the asphalt is going to go anywhere lol, if anything would let loose it would be your skin in stead of asphalt.",
">\n\nI saw the video (7:08), and I was also there Saturday. It doesn't matter that gluing your hand to the street isn't allowed, it's still protected by the right to protest. \nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest. Thats not just my opinion, European law and human rights treaties agree. Amnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\nI agree that the police acted decently most of the time. But not all of the time. What you don't see on tv but what i did see sitting there on the street is the sneaky ways police do exert some violence. Twisting your limbs, pressing your head against the street, a sneaky thumb on the nose that hurts like hell. They can be pretty vicious when they think they can get away with it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen",
">\n\n\nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest.\n\nThe protest was illegal in the first place. How is gluing yourself to a highway directly related to a protest? That does not make sense at all. If you reason in that way you can also paint-spray on public walls and call it a protest and then say \"the police can not do anything about it as it is directly related to my protest\".\nThere was an option to protest on a given place and the police would make sure you could protest in peace, but you choose to go for a highway. \n\nAmnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\n\nSorry to tell you but Amnesty International is not really a objective party and they don't have any legal authorization. Amnesty International also issued a report stating that Ukraine committed war crimes because their troops were positioned close to schools and hospitals... \nAnd the police hurting you when removing you from an illegal protest... Nobody outside the protesters really cares. You knew you were there illegal. The police asked every protester to leave voluntary, nobody did, instead people glued themselves to make it harder to remove them. Any complain about getting hurt when the police removes you is invalid upfront.\nPlay stupid games, win stupid prizes.",
">\n\nThe \"highway\" we blocked starts right there, coming from a big intersection with traffic lights in the city only 100m away from there. It's not like people are going 120km/h already. The spot we blocked lies right next to the ministry of economic affairs and the ministry of agriculture, the very institutions we are trying to get to listen. The protest is also about fossil fuels, so from that perspective blocking a road is also relevant. In short, the place is very appropriate, and it has parallel roads so that traffic is only mildly hindered. What better place to protest against those two governments than right here? \nIt sounds to me you've already made your mind up and just want to complain. I remain of the opinion that what we did was our right and completely justified. We're collectively fucking up the planet, and i just want to see that changed. Instead of talking about how we protest and if it's the best way, let's just fucking stop investing in fossil fuels already.",
">\n\nDo they sit on the highway to reduce CO2 emissions that day?\nDo they block traffic to gain sympathy from common people?",
">\n\nI know you’re asking these questions rhetorically but there is a very good reason for choosing this location: it is the road directly between Parliament on one side and the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Climate Policy on the other.\nThe demand of the protest was to end € 17,3 billion worth of yearly fossil subsidies and tax breaks as the government committed itself to in 2009, 2013 and 2019 but spectacularly failed to deliver on.",
">\n\nLol. 17B? Got any proof of that?\nDon't bother copying this guy Metten. He is very wrong with his 'calculations'",
">\n\nNo group should be allowed to block passage. And, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me. But, they need to be consistent in their enforcement. We should not see farmers receiving different treatment.",
">\n\n\nAnd, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me.\n\nGo tell that to the sea level. I am sure it will stop rising.",
">\n\nWell, if they were arrested for blocking the motorway I'm all for it, this needs to stop, these idiots need to learn one way or the other that it's not ok to make life impossible to people who are just going to work, and worse, risking causing actual damages by blocking roads.",
">\n\nNo one made life impossible. It would have been a 20 minute detour. According to your logic railworkers should not be allowed to protest either(only the US with its barbaric laws prohibts that)",
">\n\nyou do realize you can't reverse on certain roads, right? This is stupid for so many reasons, one of them is that they're pissing off people, turning them against them. And what if there's an ambulance that has to pass through? Do these idiots realize the possible implications? No, because they're idiots.",
">\n\nYou’re telling me, if you and a bunch of people block a highway, you’ll get arrested?! Woahhh what?",
">\n\nThis thread has convinced me that humanity deserves extinction"
] |
>
My man, they let farmers for months on end block traffic left and right and blockade the fucking FOOD INFRASTRUCTURE (distribution centers were cut off and supermarkets couldn't stock their shelves, because the supply trucks couldn't leave the facilities) , and now they arrest one batch of protesters and suddenly they're restrictive as fuck? You need to look at the bigger picture here. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills.",
">\n\nHave you even looked at the location?\nIt really isn't a choke point.",
">\n\nLol they interviewed a young protester who glued himself to the asphalt. He complained that the police promised that they would remove them \"softly\" but according to him it wasn't soft enough and he showed some grey/black grease on his hand.\nLike what the fuck is wrong with you? You glue yourself to the asphalt with superglue and you blame the police you got hurt (just hurt, no lasting damage or what so ever) when they removed you?\nAnother guy...\nInterviewer: Why are you protesting on the highway? You are not allowed to protest here and the municipality of the city gave you permission to protest on a designated field in the city.\nProtester: Yeah but if we block a highway we get more attention.\n*Protester continues to mock the police*\n\nYeah totally fine to protest for climate if you want to, but if you're going to block highways and annoy other civilians with your actions don't be surprised if you get a little rough treatment.",
">\n\nTo be fair, the young guy didn't as much complain as just matter-of-factly state that the police just ripped his hand off the asphalt. A strip of asphalt was still stuck to his hand. The police are literally not allowed to do that. But it wasn't a big deal and he wasn't making a drama of it",
">\n\nTried to find the video but can't find it right now. Saw it on the news this weekend.\nWhat the guy did was not allowed and he knew. Don't blame this on the police. You can see on all videos from this weekend, and there are a lot, that all protesters have been treated respectfully.\n-edit-\nWhat you see on his hands is a mix of filth from the road + glue. If you glue your hand to asphalt and rip it of it's not like the asphalt is going to go anywhere lol, if anything would let loose it would be your skin in stead of asphalt.",
">\n\nI saw the video (7:08), and I was also there Saturday. It doesn't matter that gluing your hand to the street isn't allowed, it's still protected by the right to protest. \nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest. Thats not just my opinion, European law and human rights treaties agree. Amnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\nI agree that the police acted decently most of the time. But not all of the time. What you don't see on tv but what i did see sitting there on the street is the sneaky ways police do exert some violence. Twisting your limbs, pressing your head against the street, a sneaky thumb on the nose that hurts like hell. They can be pretty vicious when they think they can get away with it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen",
">\n\n\nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest.\n\nThe protest was illegal in the first place. How is gluing yourself to a highway directly related to a protest? That does not make sense at all. If you reason in that way you can also paint-spray on public walls and call it a protest and then say \"the police can not do anything about it as it is directly related to my protest\".\nThere was an option to protest on a given place and the police would make sure you could protest in peace, but you choose to go for a highway. \n\nAmnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\n\nSorry to tell you but Amnesty International is not really a objective party and they don't have any legal authorization. Amnesty International also issued a report stating that Ukraine committed war crimes because their troops were positioned close to schools and hospitals... \nAnd the police hurting you when removing you from an illegal protest... Nobody outside the protesters really cares. You knew you were there illegal. The police asked every protester to leave voluntary, nobody did, instead people glued themselves to make it harder to remove them. Any complain about getting hurt when the police removes you is invalid upfront.\nPlay stupid games, win stupid prizes.",
">\n\nThe \"highway\" we blocked starts right there, coming from a big intersection with traffic lights in the city only 100m away from there. It's not like people are going 120km/h already. The spot we blocked lies right next to the ministry of economic affairs and the ministry of agriculture, the very institutions we are trying to get to listen. The protest is also about fossil fuels, so from that perspective blocking a road is also relevant. In short, the place is very appropriate, and it has parallel roads so that traffic is only mildly hindered. What better place to protest against those two governments than right here? \nIt sounds to me you've already made your mind up and just want to complain. I remain of the opinion that what we did was our right and completely justified. We're collectively fucking up the planet, and i just want to see that changed. Instead of talking about how we protest and if it's the best way, let's just fucking stop investing in fossil fuels already.",
">\n\nDo they sit on the highway to reduce CO2 emissions that day?\nDo they block traffic to gain sympathy from common people?",
">\n\nI know you’re asking these questions rhetorically but there is a very good reason for choosing this location: it is the road directly between Parliament on one side and the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Climate Policy on the other.\nThe demand of the protest was to end € 17,3 billion worth of yearly fossil subsidies and tax breaks as the government committed itself to in 2009, 2013 and 2019 but spectacularly failed to deliver on.",
">\n\nLol. 17B? Got any proof of that?\nDon't bother copying this guy Metten. He is very wrong with his 'calculations'",
">\n\nNo group should be allowed to block passage. And, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me. But, they need to be consistent in their enforcement. We should not see farmers receiving different treatment.",
">\n\n\nAnd, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me.\n\nGo tell that to the sea level. I am sure it will stop rising.",
">\n\nWell, if they were arrested for blocking the motorway I'm all for it, this needs to stop, these idiots need to learn one way or the other that it's not ok to make life impossible to people who are just going to work, and worse, risking causing actual damages by blocking roads.",
">\n\nNo one made life impossible. It would have been a 20 minute detour. According to your logic railworkers should not be allowed to protest either(only the US with its barbaric laws prohibts that)",
">\n\nyou do realize you can't reverse on certain roads, right? This is stupid for so many reasons, one of them is that they're pissing off people, turning them against them. And what if there's an ambulance that has to pass through? Do these idiots realize the possible implications? No, because they're idiots.",
">\n\nYou’re telling me, if you and a bunch of people block a highway, you’ll get arrested?! Woahhh what?",
">\n\nThis thread has convinced me that humanity deserves extinction",
">\n\nI love all the non-traffic engineers gas lighting people in this thread how blocking a road doesn’t cause issues or delays. Funny how one car accident in a downtown area can cause half an hours of backups but apparently protests that you agree with are easily avoided by omniscient and efficient motorists."
] |
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Of course, because they didn't protest, they caused blockades, disturbing everyday lifes of hundreds of people, angering them against their cause. Seriously, what dipshit thinks this is doing anything good? | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills.",
">\n\nHave you even looked at the location?\nIt really isn't a choke point.",
">\n\nLol they interviewed a young protester who glued himself to the asphalt. He complained that the police promised that they would remove them \"softly\" but according to him it wasn't soft enough and he showed some grey/black grease on his hand.\nLike what the fuck is wrong with you? You glue yourself to the asphalt with superglue and you blame the police you got hurt (just hurt, no lasting damage or what so ever) when they removed you?\nAnother guy...\nInterviewer: Why are you protesting on the highway? You are not allowed to protest here and the municipality of the city gave you permission to protest on a designated field in the city.\nProtester: Yeah but if we block a highway we get more attention.\n*Protester continues to mock the police*\n\nYeah totally fine to protest for climate if you want to, but if you're going to block highways and annoy other civilians with your actions don't be surprised if you get a little rough treatment.",
">\n\nTo be fair, the young guy didn't as much complain as just matter-of-factly state that the police just ripped his hand off the asphalt. A strip of asphalt was still stuck to his hand. The police are literally not allowed to do that. But it wasn't a big deal and he wasn't making a drama of it",
">\n\nTried to find the video but can't find it right now. Saw it on the news this weekend.\nWhat the guy did was not allowed and he knew. Don't blame this on the police. You can see on all videos from this weekend, and there are a lot, that all protesters have been treated respectfully.\n-edit-\nWhat you see on his hands is a mix of filth from the road + glue. If you glue your hand to asphalt and rip it of it's not like the asphalt is going to go anywhere lol, if anything would let loose it would be your skin in stead of asphalt.",
">\n\nI saw the video (7:08), and I was also there Saturday. It doesn't matter that gluing your hand to the street isn't allowed, it's still protected by the right to protest. \nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest. Thats not just my opinion, European law and human rights treaties agree. Amnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\nI agree that the police acted decently most of the time. But not all of the time. What you don't see on tv but what i did see sitting there on the street is the sneaky ways police do exert some violence. Twisting your limbs, pressing your head against the street, a sneaky thumb on the nose that hurts like hell. They can be pretty vicious when they think they can get away with it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen",
">\n\n\nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest.\n\nThe protest was illegal in the first place. How is gluing yourself to a highway directly related to a protest? That does not make sense at all. If you reason in that way you can also paint-spray on public walls and call it a protest and then say \"the police can not do anything about it as it is directly related to my protest\".\nThere was an option to protest on a given place and the police would make sure you could protest in peace, but you choose to go for a highway. \n\nAmnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\n\nSorry to tell you but Amnesty International is not really a objective party and they don't have any legal authorization. Amnesty International also issued a report stating that Ukraine committed war crimes because their troops were positioned close to schools and hospitals... \nAnd the police hurting you when removing you from an illegal protest... Nobody outside the protesters really cares. You knew you were there illegal. The police asked every protester to leave voluntary, nobody did, instead people glued themselves to make it harder to remove them. Any complain about getting hurt when the police removes you is invalid upfront.\nPlay stupid games, win stupid prizes.",
">\n\nThe \"highway\" we blocked starts right there, coming from a big intersection with traffic lights in the city only 100m away from there. It's not like people are going 120km/h already. The spot we blocked lies right next to the ministry of economic affairs and the ministry of agriculture, the very institutions we are trying to get to listen. The protest is also about fossil fuels, so from that perspective blocking a road is also relevant. In short, the place is very appropriate, and it has parallel roads so that traffic is only mildly hindered. What better place to protest against those two governments than right here? \nIt sounds to me you've already made your mind up and just want to complain. I remain of the opinion that what we did was our right and completely justified. We're collectively fucking up the planet, and i just want to see that changed. Instead of talking about how we protest and if it's the best way, let's just fucking stop investing in fossil fuels already.",
">\n\nDo they sit on the highway to reduce CO2 emissions that day?\nDo they block traffic to gain sympathy from common people?",
">\n\nI know you’re asking these questions rhetorically but there is a very good reason for choosing this location: it is the road directly between Parliament on one side and the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Climate Policy on the other.\nThe demand of the protest was to end € 17,3 billion worth of yearly fossil subsidies and tax breaks as the government committed itself to in 2009, 2013 and 2019 but spectacularly failed to deliver on.",
">\n\nLol. 17B? Got any proof of that?\nDon't bother copying this guy Metten. He is very wrong with his 'calculations'",
">\n\nNo group should be allowed to block passage. And, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me. But, they need to be consistent in their enforcement. We should not see farmers receiving different treatment.",
">\n\n\nAnd, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me.\n\nGo tell that to the sea level. I am sure it will stop rising.",
">\n\nWell, if they were arrested for blocking the motorway I'm all for it, this needs to stop, these idiots need to learn one way or the other that it's not ok to make life impossible to people who are just going to work, and worse, risking causing actual damages by blocking roads.",
">\n\nNo one made life impossible. It would have been a 20 minute detour. According to your logic railworkers should not be allowed to protest either(only the US with its barbaric laws prohibts that)",
">\n\nyou do realize you can't reverse on certain roads, right? This is stupid for so many reasons, one of them is that they're pissing off people, turning them against them. And what if there's an ambulance that has to pass through? Do these idiots realize the possible implications? No, because they're idiots.",
">\n\nYou’re telling me, if you and a bunch of people block a highway, you’ll get arrested?! Woahhh what?",
">\n\nThis thread has convinced me that humanity deserves extinction",
">\n\nI love all the non-traffic engineers gas lighting people in this thread how blocking a road doesn’t cause issues or delays. Funny how one car accident in a downtown area can cause half an hours of backups but apparently protests that you agree with are easily avoided by omniscient and efficient motorists.",
">\n\nMy man, they let farmers for months on end block traffic left and right and blockade the fucking FOOD INFRASTRUCTURE (distribution centers were cut off and supermarkets couldn't stock their shelves, because the supply trucks couldn't leave the facilities) , and now they arrest one batch of protesters and suddenly they're restrictive as fuck? You need to look at the bigger picture here."
] |
>
I mean, the group is growing exponentially. Roughly 3000 people thought it did good this time. Was roughly 800 people when I attended last year. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills.",
">\n\nHave you even looked at the location?\nIt really isn't a choke point.",
">\n\nLol they interviewed a young protester who glued himself to the asphalt. He complained that the police promised that they would remove them \"softly\" but according to him it wasn't soft enough and he showed some grey/black grease on his hand.\nLike what the fuck is wrong with you? You glue yourself to the asphalt with superglue and you blame the police you got hurt (just hurt, no lasting damage or what so ever) when they removed you?\nAnother guy...\nInterviewer: Why are you protesting on the highway? You are not allowed to protest here and the municipality of the city gave you permission to protest on a designated field in the city.\nProtester: Yeah but if we block a highway we get more attention.\n*Protester continues to mock the police*\n\nYeah totally fine to protest for climate if you want to, but if you're going to block highways and annoy other civilians with your actions don't be surprised if you get a little rough treatment.",
">\n\nTo be fair, the young guy didn't as much complain as just matter-of-factly state that the police just ripped his hand off the asphalt. A strip of asphalt was still stuck to his hand. The police are literally not allowed to do that. But it wasn't a big deal and he wasn't making a drama of it",
">\n\nTried to find the video but can't find it right now. Saw it on the news this weekend.\nWhat the guy did was not allowed and he knew. Don't blame this on the police. You can see on all videos from this weekend, and there are a lot, that all protesters have been treated respectfully.\n-edit-\nWhat you see on his hands is a mix of filth from the road + glue. If you glue your hand to asphalt and rip it of it's not like the asphalt is going to go anywhere lol, if anything would let loose it would be your skin in stead of asphalt.",
">\n\nI saw the video (7:08), and I was also there Saturday. It doesn't matter that gluing your hand to the street isn't allowed, it's still protected by the right to protest. \nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest. Thats not just my opinion, European law and human rights treaties agree. Amnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\nI agree that the police acted decently most of the time. But not all of the time. What you don't see on tv but what i did see sitting there on the street is the sneaky ways police do exert some violence. Twisting your limbs, pressing your head against the street, a sneaky thumb on the nose that hurts like hell. They can be pretty vicious when they think they can get away with it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen",
">\n\n\nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest.\n\nThe protest was illegal in the first place. How is gluing yourself to a highway directly related to a protest? That does not make sense at all. If you reason in that way you can also paint-spray on public walls and call it a protest and then say \"the police can not do anything about it as it is directly related to my protest\".\nThere was an option to protest on a given place and the police would make sure you could protest in peace, but you choose to go for a highway. \n\nAmnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\n\nSorry to tell you but Amnesty International is not really a objective party and they don't have any legal authorization. Amnesty International also issued a report stating that Ukraine committed war crimes because their troops were positioned close to schools and hospitals... \nAnd the police hurting you when removing you from an illegal protest... Nobody outside the protesters really cares. You knew you were there illegal. The police asked every protester to leave voluntary, nobody did, instead people glued themselves to make it harder to remove them. Any complain about getting hurt when the police removes you is invalid upfront.\nPlay stupid games, win stupid prizes.",
">\n\nThe \"highway\" we blocked starts right there, coming from a big intersection with traffic lights in the city only 100m away from there. It's not like people are going 120km/h already. The spot we blocked lies right next to the ministry of economic affairs and the ministry of agriculture, the very institutions we are trying to get to listen. The protest is also about fossil fuels, so from that perspective blocking a road is also relevant. In short, the place is very appropriate, and it has parallel roads so that traffic is only mildly hindered. What better place to protest against those two governments than right here? \nIt sounds to me you've already made your mind up and just want to complain. I remain of the opinion that what we did was our right and completely justified. We're collectively fucking up the planet, and i just want to see that changed. Instead of talking about how we protest and if it's the best way, let's just fucking stop investing in fossil fuels already.",
">\n\nDo they sit on the highway to reduce CO2 emissions that day?\nDo they block traffic to gain sympathy from common people?",
">\n\nI know you’re asking these questions rhetorically but there is a very good reason for choosing this location: it is the road directly between Parliament on one side and the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Climate Policy on the other.\nThe demand of the protest was to end € 17,3 billion worth of yearly fossil subsidies and tax breaks as the government committed itself to in 2009, 2013 and 2019 but spectacularly failed to deliver on.",
">\n\nLol. 17B? Got any proof of that?\nDon't bother copying this guy Metten. He is very wrong with his 'calculations'",
">\n\nNo group should be allowed to block passage. And, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me. But, they need to be consistent in their enforcement. We should not see farmers receiving different treatment.",
">\n\n\nAnd, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me.\n\nGo tell that to the sea level. I am sure it will stop rising.",
">\n\nWell, if they were arrested for blocking the motorway I'm all for it, this needs to stop, these idiots need to learn one way or the other that it's not ok to make life impossible to people who are just going to work, and worse, risking causing actual damages by blocking roads.",
">\n\nNo one made life impossible. It would have been a 20 minute detour. According to your logic railworkers should not be allowed to protest either(only the US with its barbaric laws prohibts that)",
">\n\nyou do realize you can't reverse on certain roads, right? This is stupid for so many reasons, one of them is that they're pissing off people, turning them against them. And what if there's an ambulance that has to pass through? Do these idiots realize the possible implications? No, because they're idiots.",
">\n\nYou’re telling me, if you and a bunch of people block a highway, you’ll get arrested?! Woahhh what?",
">\n\nThis thread has convinced me that humanity deserves extinction",
">\n\nI love all the non-traffic engineers gas lighting people in this thread how blocking a road doesn’t cause issues or delays. Funny how one car accident in a downtown area can cause half an hours of backups but apparently protests that you agree with are easily avoided by omniscient and efficient motorists.",
">\n\nMy man, they let farmers for months on end block traffic left and right and blockade the fucking FOOD INFRASTRUCTURE (distribution centers were cut off and supermarkets couldn't stock their shelves, because the supply trucks couldn't leave the facilities) , and now they arrest one batch of protesters and suddenly they're restrictive as fuck? You need to look at the bigger picture here.",
">\n\nOf course, because they didn't protest, they caused blockades, disturbing everyday lifes of hundreds of people, angering them against their cause. Seriously, what dipshit thinks this is doing anything good?"
] |
>
Profits before people, billionaires before billions. The cattle shall not disrupt the ranchers. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills.",
">\n\nHave you even looked at the location?\nIt really isn't a choke point.",
">\n\nLol they interviewed a young protester who glued himself to the asphalt. He complained that the police promised that they would remove them \"softly\" but according to him it wasn't soft enough and he showed some grey/black grease on his hand.\nLike what the fuck is wrong with you? You glue yourself to the asphalt with superglue and you blame the police you got hurt (just hurt, no lasting damage or what so ever) when they removed you?\nAnother guy...\nInterviewer: Why are you protesting on the highway? You are not allowed to protest here and the municipality of the city gave you permission to protest on a designated field in the city.\nProtester: Yeah but if we block a highway we get more attention.\n*Protester continues to mock the police*\n\nYeah totally fine to protest for climate if you want to, but if you're going to block highways and annoy other civilians with your actions don't be surprised if you get a little rough treatment.",
">\n\nTo be fair, the young guy didn't as much complain as just matter-of-factly state that the police just ripped his hand off the asphalt. A strip of asphalt was still stuck to his hand. The police are literally not allowed to do that. But it wasn't a big deal and he wasn't making a drama of it",
">\n\nTried to find the video but can't find it right now. Saw it on the news this weekend.\nWhat the guy did was not allowed and he knew. Don't blame this on the police. You can see on all videos from this weekend, and there are a lot, that all protesters have been treated respectfully.\n-edit-\nWhat you see on his hands is a mix of filth from the road + glue. If you glue your hand to asphalt and rip it of it's not like the asphalt is going to go anywhere lol, if anything would let loose it would be your skin in stead of asphalt.",
">\n\nI saw the video (7:08), and I was also there Saturday. It doesn't matter that gluing your hand to the street isn't allowed, it's still protected by the right to protest. \nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest. Thats not just my opinion, European law and human rights treaties agree. Amnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\nI agree that the police acted decently most of the time. But not all of the time. What you don't see on tv but what i did see sitting there on the street is the sneaky ways police do exert some violence. Twisting your limbs, pressing your head against the street, a sneaky thumb on the nose that hurts like hell. They can be pretty vicious when they think they can get away with it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen",
">\n\n\nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest.\n\nThe protest was illegal in the first place. How is gluing yourself to a highway directly related to a protest? That does not make sense at all. If you reason in that way you can also paint-spray on public walls and call it a protest and then say \"the police can not do anything about it as it is directly related to my protest\".\nThere was an option to protest on a given place and the police would make sure you could protest in peace, but you choose to go for a highway. \n\nAmnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\n\nSorry to tell you but Amnesty International is not really a objective party and they don't have any legal authorization. Amnesty International also issued a report stating that Ukraine committed war crimes because their troops were positioned close to schools and hospitals... \nAnd the police hurting you when removing you from an illegal protest... Nobody outside the protesters really cares. You knew you were there illegal. The police asked every protester to leave voluntary, nobody did, instead people glued themselves to make it harder to remove them. Any complain about getting hurt when the police removes you is invalid upfront.\nPlay stupid games, win stupid prizes.",
">\n\nThe \"highway\" we blocked starts right there, coming from a big intersection with traffic lights in the city only 100m away from there. It's not like people are going 120km/h already. The spot we blocked lies right next to the ministry of economic affairs and the ministry of agriculture, the very institutions we are trying to get to listen. The protest is also about fossil fuels, so from that perspective blocking a road is also relevant. In short, the place is very appropriate, and it has parallel roads so that traffic is only mildly hindered. What better place to protest against those two governments than right here? \nIt sounds to me you've already made your mind up and just want to complain. I remain of the opinion that what we did was our right and completely justified. We're collectively fucking up the planet, and i just want to see that changed. Instead of talking about how we protest and if it's the best way, let's just fucking stop investing in fossil fuels already.",
">\n\nDo they sit on the highway to reduce CO2 emissions that day?\nDo they block traffic to gain sympathy from common people?",
">\n\nI know you’re asking these questions rhetorically but there is a very good reason for choosing this location: it is the road directly between Parliament on one side and the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Climate Policy on the other.\nThe demand of the protest was to end € 17,3 billion worth of yearly fossil subsidies and tax breaks as the government committed itself to in 2009, 2013 and 2019 but spectacularly failed to deliver on.",
">\n\nLol. 17B? Got any proof of that?\nDon't bother copying this guy Metten. He is very wrong with his 'calculations'",
">\n\nNo group should be allowed to block passage. And, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me. But, they need to be consistent in their enforcement. We should not see farmers receiving different treatment.",
">\n\n\nAnd, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me.\n\nGo tell that to the sea level. I am sure it will stop rising.",
">\n\nWell, if they were arrested for blocking the motorway I'm all for it, this needs to stop, these idiots need to learn one way or the other that it's not ok to make life impossible to people who are just going to work, and worse, risking causing actual damages by blocking roads.",
">\n\nNo one made life impossible. It would have been a 20 minute detour. According to your logic railworkers should not be allowed to protest either(only the US with its barbaric laws prohibts that)",
">\n\nyou do realize you can't reverse on certain roads, right? This is stupid for so many reasons, one of them is that they're pissing off people, turning them against them. And what if there's an ambulance that has to pass through? Do these idiots realize the possible implications? No, because they're idiots.",
">\n\nYou’re telling me, if you and a bunch of people block a highway, you’ll get arrested?! Woahhh what?",
">\n\nThis thread has convinced me that humanity deserves extinction",
">\n\nI love all the non-traffic engineers gas lighting people in this thread how blocking a road doesn’t cause issues or delays. Funny how one car accident in a downtown area can cause half an hours of backups but apparently protests that you agree with are easily avoided by omniscient and efficient motorists.",
">\n\nMy man, they let farmers for months on end block traffic left and right and blockade the fucking FOOD INFRASTRUCTURE (distribution centers were cut off and supermarkets couldn't stock their shelves, because the supply trucks couldn't leave the facilities) , and now they arrest one batch of protesters and suddenly they're restrictive as fuck? You need to look at the bigger picture here.",
">\n\nOf course, because they didn't protest, they caused blockades, disturbing everyday lifes of hundreds of people, angering them against their cause. Seriously, what dipshit thinks this is doing anything good?",
">\n\nI mean, the group is growing exponentially. Roughly 3000 people thought it did good this time. Was roughly 800 people when I attended last year."
] |
>
Making peaceful protest harder only makes violent protest more likely. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills.",
">\n\nHave you even looked at the location?\nIt really isn't a choke point.",
">\n\nLol they interviewed a young protester who glued himself to the asphalt. He complained that the police promised that they would remove them \"softly\" but according to him it wasn't soft enough and he showed some grey/black grease on his hand.\nLike what the fuck is wrong with you? You glue yourself to the asphalt with superglue and you blame the police you got hurt (just hurt, no lasting damage or what so ever) when they removed you?\nAnother guy...\nInterviewer: Why are you protesting on the highway? You are not allowed to protest here and the municipality of the city gave you permission to protest on a designated field in the city.\nProtester: Yeah but if we block a highway we get more attention.\n*Protester continues to mock the police*\n\nYeah totally fine to protest for climate if you want to, but if you're going to block highways and annoy other civilians with your actions don't be surprised if you get a little rough treatment.",
">\n\nTo be fair, the young guy didn't as much complain as just matter-of-factly state that the police just ripped his hand off the asphalt. A strip of asphalt was still stuck to his hand. The police are literally not allowed to do that. But it wasn't a big deal and he wasn't making a drama of it",
">\n\nTried to find the video but can't find it right now. Saw it on the news this weekend.\nWhat the guy did was not allowed and he knew. Don't blame this on the police. You can see on all videos from this weekend, and there are a lot, that all protesters have been treated respectfully.\n-edit-\nWhat you see on his hands is a mix of filth from the road + glue. If you glue your hand to asphalt and rip it of it's not like the asphalt is going to go anywhere lol, if anything would let loose it would be your skin in stead of asphalt.",
">\n\nI saw the video (7:08), and I was also there Saturday. It doesn't matter that gluing your hand to the street isn't allowed, it's still protected by the right to protest. \nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest. Thats not just my opinion, European law and human rights treaties agree. Amnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\nI agree that the police acted decently most of the time. But not all of the time. What you don't see on tv but what i did see sitting there on the street is the sneaky ways police do exert some violence. Twisting your limbs, pressing your head against the street, a sneaky thumb on the nose that hurts like hell. They can be pretty vicious when they think they can get away with it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen",
">\n\n\nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest.\n\nThe protest was illegal in the first place. How is gluing yourself to a highway directly related to a protest? That does not make sense at all. If you reason in that way you can also paint-spray on public walls and call it a protest and then say \"the police can not do anything about it as it is directly related to my protest\".\nThere was an option to protest on a given place and the police would make sure you could protest in peace, but you choose to go for a highway. \n\nAmnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\n\nSorry to tell you but Amnesty International is not really a objective party and they don't have any legal authorization. Amnesty International also issued a report stating that Ukraine committed war crimes because their troops were positioned close to schools and hospitals... \nAnd the police hurting you when removing you from an illegal protest... Nobody outside the protesters really cares. You knew you were there illegal. The police asked every protester to leave voluntary, nobody did, instead people glued themselves to make it harder to remove them. Any complain about getting hurt when the police removes you is invalid upfront.\nPlay stupid games, win stupid prizes.",
">\n\nThe \"highway\" we blocked starts right there, coming from a big intersection with traffic lights in the city only 100m away from there. It's not like people are going 120km/h already. The spot we blocked lies right next to the ministry of economic affairs and the ministry of agriculture, the very institutions we are trying to get to listen. The protest is also about fossil fuels, so from that perspective blocking a road is also relevant. In short, the place is very appropriate, and it has parallel roads so that traffic is only mildly hindered. What better place to protest against those two governments than right here? \nIt sounds to me you've already made your mind up and just want to complain. I remain of the opinion that what we did was our right and completely justified. We're collectively fucking up the planet, and i just want to see that changed. Instead of talking about how we protest and if it's the best way, let's just fucking stop investing in fossil fuels already.",
">\n\nDo they sit on the highway to reduce CO2 emissions that day?\nDo they block traffic to gain sympathy from common people?",
">\n\nI know you’re asking these questions rhetorically but there is a very good reason for choosing this location: it is the road directly between Parliament on one side and the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Climate Policy on the other.\nThe demand of the protest was to end € 17,3 billion worth of yearly fossil subsidies and tax breaks as the government committed itself to in 2009, 2013 and 2019 but spectacularly failed to deliver on.",
">\n\nLol. 17B? Got any proof of that?\nDon't bother copying this guy Metten. He is very wrong with his 'calculations'",
">\n\nNo group should be allowed to block passage. And, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me. But, they need to be consistent in their enforcement. We should not see farmers receiving different treatment.",
">\n\n\nAnd, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me.\n\nGo tell that to the sea level. I am sure it will stop rising.",
">\n\nWell, if they were arrested for blocking the motorway I'm all for it, this needs to stop, these idiots need to learn one way or the other that it's not ok to make life impossible to people who are just going to work, and worse, risking causing actual damages by blocking roads.",
">\n\nNo one made life impossible. It would have been a 20 minute detour. According to your logic railworkers should not be allowed to protest either(only the US with its barbaric laws prohibts that)",
">\n\nyou do realize you can't reverse on certain roads, right? This is stupid for so many reasons, one of them is that they're pissing off people, turning them against them. And what if there's an ambulance that has to pass through? Do these idiots realize the possible implications? No, because they're idiots.",
">\n\nYou’re telling me, if you and a bunch of people block a highway, you’ll get arrested?! Woahhh what?",
">\n\nThis thread has convinced me that humanity deserves extinction",
">\n\nI love all the non-traffic engineers gas lighting people in this thread how blocking a road doesn’t cause issues or delays. Funny how one car accident in a downtown area can cause half an hours of backups but apparently protests that you agree with are easily avoided by omniscient and efficient motorists.",
">\n\nMy man, they let farmers for months on end block traffic left and right and blockade the fucking FOOD INFRASTRUCTURE (distribution centers were cut off and supermarkets couldn't stock their shelves, because the supply trucks couldn't leave the facilities) , and now they arrest one batch of protesters and suddenly they're restrictive as fuck? You need to look at the bigger picture here.",
">\n\nOf course, because they didn't protest, they caused blockades, disturbing everyday lifes of hundreds of people, angering them against their cause. Seriously, what dipshit thinks this is doing anything good?",
">\n\nI mean, the group is growing exponentially. Roughly 3000 people thought it did good this time. Was roughly 800 people when I attended last year.",
">\n\nProfits before people, billionaires before billions. The cattle shall not disrupt the ranchers."
] |
>
...blockade... Say no more. If you infringe on other people's rights, you aren't protesting, you are terrorizing. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills.",
">\n\nHave you even looked at the location?\nIt really isn't a choke point.",
">\n\nLol they interviewed a young protester who glued himself to the asphalt. He complained that the police promised that they would remove them \"softly\" but according to him it wasn't soft enough and he showed some grey/black grease on his hand.\nLike what the fuck is wrong with you? You glue yourself to the asphalt with superglue and you blame the police you got hurt (just hurt, no lasting damage or what so ever) when they removed you?\nAnother guy...\nInterviewer: Why are you protesting on the highway? You are not allowed to protest here and the municipality of the city gave you permission to protest on a designated field in the city.\nProtester: Yeah but if we block a highway we get more attention.\n*Protester continues to mock the police*\n\nYeah totally fine to protest for climate if you want to, but if you're going to block highways and annoy other civilians with your actions don't be surprised if you get a little rough treatment.",
">\n\nTo be fair, the young guy didn't as much complain as just matter-of-factly state that the police just ripped his hand off the asphalt. A strip of asphalt was still stuck to his hand. The police are literally not allowed to do that. But it wasn't a big deal and he wasn't making a drama of it",
">\n\nTried to find the video but can't find it right now. Saw it on the news this weekend.\nWhat the guy did was not allowed and he knew. Don't blame this on the police. You can see on all videos from this weekend, and there are a lot, that all protesters have been treated respectfully.\n-edit-\nWhat you see on his hands is a mix of filth from the road + glue. If you glue your hand to asphalt and rip it of it's not like the asphalt is going to go anywhere lol, if anything would let loose it would be your skin in stead of asphalt.",
">\n\nI saw the video (7:08), and I was also there Saturday. It doesn't matter that gluing your hand to the street isn't allowed, it's still protected by the right to protest. \nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest. Thats not just my opinion, European law and human rights treaties agree. Amnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\nI agree that the police acted decently most of the time. But not all of the time. What you don't see on tv but what i did see sitting there on the street is the sneaky ways police do exert some violence. Twisting your limbs, pressing your head against the street, a sneaky thumb on the nose that hurts like hell. They can be pretty vicious when they think they can get away with it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen",
">\n\n\nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest.\n\nThe protest was illegal in the first place. How is gluing yourself to a highway directly related to a protest? That does not make sense at all. If you reason in that way you can also paint-spray on public walls and call it a protest and then say \"the police can not do anything about it as it is directly related to my protest\".\nThere was an option to protest on a given place and the police would make sure you could protest in peace, but you choose to go for a highway. \n\nAmnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\n\nSorry to tell you but Amnesty International is not really a objective party and they don't have any legal authorization. Amnesty International also issued a report stating that Ukraine committed war crimes because their troops were positioned close to schools and hospitals... \nAnd the police hurting you when removing you from an illegal protest... Nobody outside the protesters really cares. You knew you were there illegal. The police asked every protester to leave voluntary, nobody did, instead people glued themselves to make it harder to remove them. Any complain about getting hurt when the police removes you is invalid upfront.\nPlay stupid games, win stupid prizes.",
">\n\nThe \"highway\" we blocked starts right there, coming from a big intersection with traffic lights in the city only 100m away from there. It's not like people are going 120km/h already. The spot we blocked lies right next to the ministry of economic affairs and the ministry of agriculture, the very institutions we are trying to get to listen. The protest is also about fossil fuels, so from that perspective blocking a road is also relevant. In short, the place is very appropriate, and it has parallel roads so that traffic is only mildly hindered. What better place to protest against those two governments than right here? \nIt sounds to me you've already made your mind up and just want to complain. I remain of the opinion that what we did was our right and completely justified. We're collectively fucking up the planet, and i just want to see that changed. Instead of talking about how we protest and if it's the best way, let's just fucking stop investing in fossil fuels already.",
">\n\nDo they sit on the highway to reduce CO2 emissions that day?\nDo they block traffic to gain sympathy from common people?",
">\n\nI know you’re asking these questions rhetorically but there is a very good reason for choosing this location: it is the road directly between Parliament on one side and the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Climate Policy on the other.\nThe demand of the protest was to end € 17,3 billion worth of yearly fossil subsidies and tax breaks as the government committed itself to in 2009, 2013 and 2019 but spectacularly failed to deliver on.",
">\n\nLol. 17B? Got any proof of that?\nDon't bother copying this guy Metten. He is very wrong with his 'calculations'",
">\n\nNo group should be allowed to block passage. And, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me. But, they need to be consistent in their enforcement. We should not see farmers receiving different treatment.",
">\n\n\nAnd, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me.\n\nGo tell that to the sea level. I am sure it will stop rising.",
">\n\nWell, if they were arrested for blocking the motorway I'm all for it, this needs to stop, these idiots need to learn one way or the other that it's not ok to make life impossible to people who are just going to work, and worse, risking causing actual damages by blocking roads.",
">\n\nNo one made life impossible. It would have been a 20 minute detour. According to your logic railworkers should not be allowed to protest either(only the US with its barbaric laws prohibts that)",
">\n\nyou do realize you can't reverse on certain roads, right? This is stupid for so many reasons, one of them is that they're pissing off people, turning them against them. And what if there's an ambulance that has to pass through? Do these idiots realize the possible implications? No, because they're idiots.",
">\n\nYou’re telling me, if you and a bunch of people block a highway, you’ll get arrested?! Woahhh what?",
">\n\nThis thread has convinced me that humanity deserves extinction",
">\n\nI love all the non-traffic engineers gas lighting people in this thread how blocking a road doesn’t cause issues or delays. Funny how one car accident in a downtown area can cause half an hours of backups but apparently protests that you agree with are easily avoided by omniscient and efficient motorists.",
">\n\nMy man, they let farmers for months on end block traffic left and right and blockade the fucking FOOD INFRASTRUCTURE (distribution centers were cut off and supermarkets couldn't stock their shelves, because the supply trucks couldn't leave the facilities) , and now they arrest one batch of protesters and suddenly they're restrictive as fuck? You need to look at the bigger picture here.",
">\n\nOf course, because they didn't protest, they caused blockades, disturbing everyday lifes of hundreds of people, angering them against their cause. Seriously, what dipshit thinks this is doing anything good?",
">\n\nI mean, the group is growing exponentially. Roughly 3000 people thought it did good this time. Was roughly 800 people when I attended last year.",
">\n\nProfits before people, billionaires before billions. The cattle shall not disrupt the ranchers.",
">\n\nMaking peaceful protest harder only makes violent protest more likely."
] |
>
That is just not how the dutch right to protest works... | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills.",
">\n\nHave you even looked at the location?\nIt really isn't a choke point.",
">\n\nLol they interviewed a young protester who glued himself to the asphalt. He complained that the police promised that they would remove them \"softly\" but according to him it wasn't soft enough and he showed some grey/black grease on his hand.\nLike what the fuck is wrong with you? You glue yourself to the asphalt with superglue and you blame the police you got hurt (just hurt, no lasting damage or what so ever) when they removed you?\nAnother guy...\nInterviewer: Why are you protesting on the highway? You are not allowed to protest here and the municipality of the city gave you permission to protest on a designated field in the city.\nProtester: Yeah but if we block a highway we get more attention.\n*Protester continues to mock the police*\n\nYeah totally fine to protest for climate if you want to, but if you're going to block highways and annoy other civilians with your actions don't be surprised if you get a little rough treatment.",
">\n\nTo be fair, the young guy didn't as much complain as just matter-of-factly state that the police just ripped his hand off the asphalt. A strip of asphalt was still stuck to his hand. The police are literally not allowed to do that. But it wasn't a big deal and he wasn't making a drama of it",
">\n\nTried to find the video but can't find it right now. Saw it on the news this weekend.\nWhat the guy did was not allowed and he knew. Don't blame this on the police. You can see on all videos from this weekend, and there are a lot, that all protesters have been treated respectfully.\n-edit-\nWhat you see on his hands is a mix of filth from the road + glue. If you glue your hand to asphalt and rip it of it's not like the asphalt is going to go anywhere lol, if anything would let loose it would be your skin in stead of asphalt.",
">\n\nI saw the video (7:08), and I was also there Saturday. It doesn't matter that gluing your hand to the street isn't allowed, it's still protected by the right to protest. \nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest. Thats not just my opinion, European law and human rights treaties agree. Amnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\nI agree that the police acted decently most of the time. But not all of the time. What you don't see on tv but what i did see sitting there on the street is the sneaky ways police do exert some violence. Twisting your limbs, pressing your head against the street, a sneaky thumb on the nose that hurts like hell. They can be pretty vicious when they think they can get away with it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen",
">\n\n\nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest.\n\nThe protest was illegal in the first place. How is gluing yourself to a highway directly related to a protest? That does not make sense at all. If you reason in that way you can also paint-spray on public walls and call it a protest and then say \"the police can not do anything about it as it is directly related to my protest\".\nThere was an option to protest on a given place and the police would make sure you could protest in peace, but you choose to go for a highway. \n\nAmnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\n\nSorry to tell you but Amnesty International is not really a objective party and they don't have any legal authorization. Amnesty International also issued a report stating that Ukraine committed war crimes because their troops were positioned close to schools and hospitals... \nAnd the police hurting you when removing you from an illegal protest... Nobody outside the protesters really cares. You knew you were there illegal. The police asked every protester to leave voluntary, nobody did, instead people glued themselves to make it harder to remove them. Any complain about getting hurt when the police removes you is invalid upfront.\nPlay stupid games, win stupid prizes.",
">\n\nThe \"highway\" we blocked starts right there, coming from a big intersection with traffic lights in the city only 100m away from there. It's not like people are going 120km/h already. The spot we blocked lies right next to the ministry of economic affairs and the ministry of agriculture, the very institutions we are trying to get to listen. The protest is also about fossil fuels, so from that perspective blocking a road is also relevant. In short, the place is very appropriate, and it has parallel roads so that traffic is only mildly hindered. What better place to protest against those two governments than right here? \nIt sounds to me you've already made your mind up and just want to complain. I remain of the opinion that what we did was our right and completely justified. We're collectively fucking up the planet, and i just want to see that changed. Instead of talking about how we protest and if it's the best way, let's just fucking stop investing in fossil fuels already.",
">\n\nDo they sit on the highway to reduce CO2 emissions that day?\nDo they block traffic to gain sympathy from common people?",
">\n\nI know you’re asking these questions rhetorically but there is a very good reason for choosing this location: it is the road directly between Parliament on one side and the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Climate Policy on the other.\nThe demand of the protest was to end € 17,3 billion worth of yearly fossil subsidies and tax breaks as the government committed itself to in 2009, 2013 and 2019 but spectacularly failed to deliver on.",
">\n\nLol. 17B? Got any proof of that?\nDon't bother copying this guy Metten. He is very wrong with his 'calculations'",
">\n\nNo group should be allowed to block passage. And, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me. But, they need to be consistent in their enforcement. We should not see farmers receiving different treatment.",
">\n\n\nAnd, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me.\n\nGo tell that to the sea level. I am sure it will stop rising.",
">\n\nWell, if they were arrested for blocking the motorway I'm all for it, this needs to stop, these idiots need to learn one way or the other that it's not ok to make life impossible to people who are just going to work, and worse, risking causing actual damages by blocking roads.",
">\n\nNo one made life impossible. It would have been a 20 minute detour. According to your logic railworkers should not be allowed to protest either(only the US with its barbaric laws prohibts that)",
">\n\nyou do realize you can't reverse on certain roads, right? This is stupid for so many reasons, one of them is that they're pissing off people, turning them against them. And what if there's an ambulance that has to pass through? Do these idiots realize the possible implications? No, because they're idiots.",
">\n\nYou’re telling me, if you and a bunch of people block a highway, you’ll get arrested?! Woahhh what?",
">\n\nThis thread has convinced me that humanity deserves extinction",
">\n\nI love all the non-traffic engineers gas lighting people in this thread how blocking a road doesn’t cause issues or delays. Funny how one car accident in a downtown area can cause half an hours of backups but apparently protests that you agree with are easily avoided by omniscient and efficient motorists.",
">\n\nMy man, they let farmers for months on end block traffic left and right and blockade the fucking FOOD INFRASTRUCTURE (distribution centers were cut off and supermarkets couldn't stock their shelves, because the supply trucks couldn't leave the facilities) , and now they arrest one batch of protesters and suddenly they're restrictive as fuck? You need to look at the bigger picture here.",
">\n\nOf course, because they didn't protest, they caused blockades, disturbing everyday lifes of hundreds of people, angering them against their cause. Seriously, what dipshit thinks this is doing anything good?",
">\n\nI mean, the group is growing exponentially. Roughly 3000 people thought it did good this time. Was roughly 800 people when I attended last year.",
">\n\nProfits before people, billionaires before billions. The cattle shall not disrupt the ranchers.",
">\n\nMaking peaceful protest harder only makes violent protest more likely.",
">\n\n...blockade... Say no more. If you infringe on other people's rights, you aren't protesting, you are terrorizing."
] |
>
I got attacked by security when I protested after the Anne Frank house kicked me out for being disabled. Got no help from police. I have filed a human rights violation with them for the refusal of service. That my human right to
Protest was violated while I was protesting for my human right to take part in society and not be told only for able bodied people was max irony. | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills.",
">\n\nHave you even looked at the location?\nIt really isn't a choke point.",
">\n\nLol they interviewed a young protester who glued himself to the asphalt. He complained that the police promised that they would remove them \"softly\" but according to him it wasn't soft enough and he showed some grey/black grease on his hand.\nLike what the fuck is wrong with you? You glue yourself to the asphalt with superglue and you blame the police you got hurt (just hurt, no lasting damage or what so ever) when they removed you?\nAnother guy...\nInterviewer: Why are you protesting on the highway? You are not allowed to protest here and the municipality of the city gave you permission to protest on a designated field in the city.\nProtester: Yeah but if we block a highway we get more attention.\n*Protester continues to mock the police*\n\nYeah totally fine to protest for climate if you want to, but if you're going to block highways and annoy other civilians with your actions don't be surprised if you get a little rough treatment.",
">\n\nTo be fair, the young guy didn't as much complain as just matter-of-factly state that the police just ripped his hand off the asphalt. A strip of asphalt was still stuck to his hand. The police are literally not allowed to do that. But it wasn't a big deal and he wasn't making a drama of it",
">\n\nTried to find the video but can't find it right now. Saw it on the news this weekend.\nWhat the guy did was not allowed and he knew. Don't blame this on the police. You can see on all videos from this weekend, and there are a lot, that all protesters have been treated respectfully.\n-edit-\nWhat you see on his hands is a mix of filth from the road + glue. If you glue your hand to asphalt and rip it of it's not like the asphalt is going to go anywhere lol, if anything would let loose it would be your skin in stead of asphalt.",
">\n\nI saw the video (7:08), and I was also there Saturday. It doesn't matter that gluing your hand to the street isn't allowed, it's still protected by the right to protest. \nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest. Thats not just my opinion, European law and human rights treaties agree. Amnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\nI agree that the police acted decently most of the time. But not all of the time. What you don't see on tv but what i did see sitting there on the street is the sneaky ways police do exert some violence. Twisting your limbs, pressing your head against the street, a sneaky thumb on the nose that hurts like hell. They can be pretty vicious when they think they can get away with it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen",
">\n\n\nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest.\n\nThe protest was illegal in the first place. How is gluing yourself to a highway directly related to a protest? That does not make sense at all. If you reason in that way you can also paint-spray on public walls and call it a protest and then say \"the police can not do anything about it as it is directly related to my protest\".\nThere was an option to protest on a given place and the police would make sure you could protest in peace, but you choose to go for a highway. \n\nAmnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\n\nSorry to tell you but Amnesty International is not really a objective party and they don't have any legal authorization. Amnesty International also issued a report stating that Ukraine committed war crimes because their troops were positioned close to schools and hospitals... \nAnd the police hurting you when removing you from an illegal protest... Nobody outside the protesters really cares. You knew you were there illegal. The police asked every protester to leave voluntary, nobody did, instead people glued themselves to make it harder to remove them. Any complain about getting hurt when the police removes you is invalid upfront.\nPlay stupid games, win stupid prizes.",
">\n\nThe \"highway\" we blocked starts right there, coming from a big intersection with traffic lights in the city only 100m away from there. It's not like people are going 120km/h already. The spot we blocked lies right next to the ministry of economic affairs and the ministry of agriculture, the very institutions we are trying to get to listen. The protest is also about fossil fuels, so from that perspective blocking a road is also relevant. In short, the place is very appropriate, and it has parallel roads so that traffic is only mildly hindered. What better place to protest against those two governments than right here? \nIt sounds to me you've already made your mind up and just want to complain. I remain of the opinion that what we did was our right and completely justified. We're collectively fucking up the planet, and i just want to see that changed. Instead of talking about how we protest and if it's the best way, let's just fucking stop investing in fossil fuels already.",
">\n\nDo they sit on the highway to reduce CO2 emissions that day?\nDo they block traffic to gain sympathy from common people?",
">\n\nI know you’re asking these questions rhetorically but there is a very good reason for choosing this location: it is the road directly between Parliament on one side and the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Climate Policy on the other.\nThe demand of the protest was to end € 17,3 billion worth of yearly fossil subsidies and tax breaks as the government committed itself to in 2009, 2013 and 2019 but spectacularly failed to deliver on.",
">\n\nLol. 17B? Got any proof of that?\nDon't bother copying this guy Metten. He is very wrong with his 'calculations'",
">\n\nNo group should be allowed to block passage. And, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me. But, they need to be consistent in their enforcement. We should not see farmers receiving different treatment.",
">\n\n\nAnd, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me.\n\nGo tell that to the sea level. I am sure it will stop rising.",
">\n\nWell, if they were arrested for blocking the motorway I'm all for it, this needs to stop, these idiots need to learn one way or the other that it's not ok to make life impossible to people who are just going to work, and worse, risking causing actual damages by blocking roads.",
">\n\nNo one made life impossible. It would have been a 20 minute detour. According to your logic railworkers should not be allowed to protest either(only the US with its barbaric laws prohibts that)",
">\n\nyou do realize you can't reverse on certain roads, right? This is stupid for so many reasons, one of them is that they're pissing off people, turning them against them. And what if there's an ambulance that has to pass through? Do these idiots realize the possible implications? No, because they're idiots.",
">\n\nYou’re telling me, if you and a bunch of people block a highway, you’ll get arrested?! Woahhh what?",
">\n\nThis thread has convinced me that humanity deserves extinction",
">\n\nI love all the non-traffic engineers gas lighting people in this thread how blocking a road doesn’t cause issues or delays. Funny how one car accident in a downtown area can cause half an hours of backups but apparently protests that you agree with are easily avoided by omniscient and efficient motorists.",
">\n\nMy man, they let farmers for months on end block traffic left and right and blockade the fucking FOOD INFRASTRUCTURE (distribution centers were cut off and supermarkets couldn't stock their shelves, because the supply trucks couldn't leave the facilities) , and now they arrest one batch of protesters and suddenly they're restrictive as fuck? You need to look at the bigger picture here.",
">\n\nOf course, because they didn't protest, they caused blockades, disturbing everyday lifes of hundreds of people, angering them against their cause. Seriously, what dipshit thinks this is doing anything good?",
">\n\nI mean, the group is growing exponentially. Roughly 3000 people thought it did good this time. Was roughly 800 people when I attended last year.",
">\n\nProfits before people, billionaires before billions. The cattle shall not disrupt the ranchers.",
">\n\nMaking peaceful protest harder only makes violent protest more likely.",
">\n\n...blockade... Say no more. If you infringe on other people's rights, you aren't protesting, you are terrorizing.",
">\n\nThat is just not how the dutch right to protest works..."
] |
> | [
"The College voor de Rechten van de Mens said the preventive arrest of six activists in dawn raids on Thursday morning was especially concerning.\n\nSay what you want about the protests themselves, but dawn raids on people who might be planning to attend a non-violent protest is seriously dystopian. I would hope that everyone can agree on that.",
">\n\nThat IS concerning. It’s not exactly preparing a terrorist act. \nThat said I have very little sympathy for the highway protest people. As far as I’m concerned angry commuters should be free to drag people away - especially those who glue themselves to the road (a popular method in Stockholm in 2022 ).",
">\n\nAngry commuters have not that right. Not even if you think they should have. \nYour idea is pretty dangerous: allowing people to attack others who they think are obstructing something.",
">\n\nLook at it from another perspective... People are on the motorway. It's super dangerous when there are cars driving there. Its better to help them get off the motorway and prevent severe injuries as they could get hit by driving cars.\nAnd while you are saving those people, Maybe just tell them where they can safely demonstrate",
">\n\nThis segment of road is actually not a motorway and is inside the city proper. It is bounded by two junctions with traffic lights. This means traffic can be easily rerouted prior to the demonstration, as was done on Saturday, and is also regularly done for events and such.",
">\n\nThanks; this is an important comment that provides great context.",
">\n\nThey forgot to bring tractors. You're allowed to do pretty much anything if you bring a tractor.",
">\n\nProtests and blockades are different. They should be treated differently",
">\n\nBlockades are not categorically exempt from the right to protest.\nFrom the original article by the Dutch human rights watchdog:\n\nTemporary traffic blockades are considered by the European Court of Human Rights as a form of protest.\n\nAmnesty asserts the same:\n\nIn principle, such actions are covered by the protections of the right to protest, especially if they are announced and when the protestors have taken precautions to prevent dangerous situations.\n\nIn Roorda et al’s extensive 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties commissioned by the internal affairs ministry, it is concluded that:\n\nIn short: from the legislative history, literature and jurisprudence it shows that blockades in principle are covered by the right to protest under art. 9 of the [Dutch] constitution.\n\nAnd also in EU law:\n\nA blocking sit-in, the occupation of a building, a long-term encampment at a public space are, according to the Court [ECHR] in principle peaceful assemblies and hence covered under the protections of art. 11 ECHR\n\nNotice all the in principles there: none of these rights are unlimited. The law accounts for three grounds to restrict or ban protests, but (from the original article again)\n\nRestricting protests must only be done in the least restrictive way.\n\nIn practice, traffic could easily have been rerouted in this case and in fact it was, taking away any danger and hence ground to restrict or terminate the protest, concludes an Amnesty spokeperson when interviewed in Buitenhof.",
">\n\nI like how suddenly everyone brings this up now but were totally silent when some angry Frysians blocked the highways as counter-protest.",
">\n\nIt’s where the in princple bits come in. That case is actually quite complex but it seemed there were two main problems:\n\n\nThe protest was unannounced, at an actual motorway, and caused an actually dangerous situation. (Note the fact that no accidents occurred was taken into consideration for sentencing)\n\n\nThe intention was to prevent another group from exercising their constitutional right to protest.\n\n\nMeanwhile the farmer’s motorway protests were tolerated if not facilitated and once even the police protested on the motorway.",
">\n\nIirc it wasn't unannounced, it was all over social media I think? But they just didn't ask for any permission, the current protesters don't have any permission either. \nAnd the second point would lead to a paradox, its totally fine to restrict peoples' right to freedom of movement, but its not fine to restrict peoples' rights during protest, but it is legally allowed, but it isn't, but it is legally allowed, so on so on.",
">\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law, but I get what you’re getting at. In last Saturday’s the city was in a position to take measures to keep the protest safe, in the Friesland case the judge concluded they weren’t (from my reading).\nFor the second point my understanding is that it’s all about whether or not the action had a coercive nature. For blockades that can be the case but it doesn’t need to be. This action however was judged coercive because it was intent on preventing another group from exercising their constitutional rights.\nRoorda’s 2015 report Evaluatie Wet openbare manifestaties has a good in-depth sections on blockades in Dutch and EU law.",
">\n\n\nNote you don’t need anyone’s permission to protest under Dutch law\n\nThen why am i always seeing news articles about protesters having to get permits",
">\n\nBecause there is a permit system but there on a shall issue basis and the lack of one isn't alone reason enough for the police to shutdown a protest. \nReally all a permit does is give you some level of guarantee that the police sign of on your security provisions and won't shut it down for security reasons as well as allowing you violate some noise laws.\nIf you want to pick up a sign and go protest right now your free to do without a permit, if you bring 200 of your friends your still in the clear, if you start building a podium and inviting speakers and stuff yeah you need a permit.",
">\n\nI'm borrowing a bit of from US law to keep it clear to a US audience but really calling it notice rather then permit means the Dutch state has to pay Orwell his royalties, it is effectively the same thing ( especially because your still gonna need a objectpermit ). \nA us Permit on a shall issue basis basically means the state needs a compelling reason not to allow it, similar with the notice + emergency order provision in Dutch law really ( like it's a distinction without a difference ).",
">\n\nClimate change is the largest threat to human civilization but god forbid that we let protesters block a highway for a couple of hours.",
">\n\nThe Russian attack on Ukraine is the worst thing to happen to Ukraine in decades, but god forbid I punch juuuust a few grandmas in the Paris Metro to get the anti-war cause into the newspapers!\nThat's the exact logic you're using.",
">\n\nSo what exactly should protestors do that hasn't already been tried and ignored all over the developed world?\nThis is an act of desperation. They want your attention because they want you to wake the fuck up and stop just playing business as usual as if the planet isn't becoming uninhabitable",
">\n\nFirst of all, if people are ignoring your message, that's YOUR problem, and doesn't give you the right to escalate in any way that would infringe on my rights. The same way that someone rejecting you sexually doesn't give you the right to grab their butt in hopes to turn a \"no\" into a \"yes\". The correct way is to accept a \"no\" and go away, or, if not, risk getting slapped. Or arrested.\nBut that is besides the point.\nBecause everyone and their pet fish knows about climate change and the need to act. Everyone. An that's why nearly every western government is taking action. Right now. And have been for a while.\nResearch is consantly making solar and wind power cheaper to install, longer-lasting, or more efficient. Capacity of both is rising pretty much everywhere. E-cars-only laws are enacted with shorter and shorter deadlines for conventional cars still allowed to be sold. short-range flights are being banned here and there, and train infrastructure across the EU is being massively upgraded. And so on, and so on. Politics is FULL of talk about new climate-protection measures. What the fuck else do they want? Blow up all conventional power plants at once and return to a hunter-gatherer lifestype?\nTheir message is completely and utterly pointless. No amount of screaming \"THE WORLD IS BUUUURNING!\" into my ears is making me more aware of the problem at hand, and that likely goes for everyone else as well.\nSo what they should do is: Shut up, fuck off, and disappear. We got this. We don't need these pathetic, disruptive attention whores. All they are doing is a disservice to the actual message, by making people hate them, and by exenson whatever they have to say.",
">\n\nYeah you don't seem like a particularly rational or cool-headed person, so I'm not going to be engaging with you beyond this, but I'll just say - you are very sorely mistaken if you're under the impression that any government is doing anywhere near what's required to combat climate change. You've listened to the pretty words but have failed to educate yourself on the substance. In fact we're presently on course to overshoot our meager targets, and scientists agree that we're already on the brink of various tipping points which will mean climate change becomes deadly and irreversible. In short, we're fucked.\nWe very much don't got this.\nAnd it will be your problem before long. It's going to kill millions and destroy our way of life.",
">\n\nHow about the right to drive to work or not have emergency vehicles blocked by a protest? You absolutely have the right to demonstrate. You don’t have the right to potentially ruin people’s lives while you do it.",
">\n\nHow about the right of future generations to live on a planet that isn't rapidly becoming uninhabitable?\nSome things are just a tad more important than your commute.",
">\n\nI agree that climate change policy needs to change and be a priority. Blocking motorways is not the way to do it. \nAnd I hope you remember that snide commute reduction comment when you have to rush to a hospital or get to that court date or whatever. These protests (not organized marches, but the illegal protests that are happening all over the world) completely ignore how important it is for people to travel. It’s not always a question of a small delay in a commute to work with a boss who is understanding.",
">\n\nI can't speak to the protest in Sweden under discussion, but certainly for these types of actions in the UK, the notion that protestors don't move for ambulances is a lie pushed by right wing media who routinely demonise those who dare to question the status quo. I've witnessed protestors at these types of blockades move aside for emergency vehicles a number or times. Letting through emergency vehicles is very much part of their planning. \nObviously that might not cover all emergency situations which is unfortunate, but I would argue that the situation we're in regards the lack of meaningful climate action is enough of an emergency to warrant such serious measures. Literally millions of people in the global south are going to be didplaced (read: die) within our lifetimes because of this lack of action. I suspect no one taking part in these protests particularly wants to be there - like the people they're blockading, they have other things they'd rather be doing, but faced with the grim reality, these people have decided they can no longer just stand by.\nThese blockades haven't come out of nowhere; they're the culmination of literal decades of political campaigning and protesting to very little effect. Unfortunately our leaders have collectively decided they care more about short term profits than the ability of the planet to support human life, and are leading us on the path to hell. After decades of pretty words and no action, we're almost out of time. Disrupting business as usual is the only avenue left. \nYou think I'm being 'reductive' about 'commuting' - well I think you're being reductive about the greatest threat humanity has ever faced. Any inconvenience caused by these blockades pales in comparison to what's coming down the line. I hope you remember that when we start hitting climate tipping points.\nClimate change is going to destroy our way of life and people are getting upset about some traffic disruption. Please get some perspective.",
">\n\nI’m not the one that needs perspective. Like I said, I agree that climate change policy needs to change and that protesting in favor of it is good, even necessary. What I disagree with is the method being used. It’s self defeating, in that the target audience could literally care less about these protests, and it’s selfish, in that it completely disregards the needs of the people it is stopping from traveling. If anything, it is turning people against the message.\nYour comment about emergency vehicles being let through is a little odd, because it’s not an issue of an emergency vehicle that finds it’s way to the blockade. Only a sociopath would not step aside for an ambulance that is right in front of them. The issue is the clogging of travel arteries. That ambulance that is 50 cars deep in that gridlock isn’t getting through that blockade, certainly not timely… and that ignores the needs of all of the other travelers that could have equally urgent needs.\nThere is absolutely no need or benefit to stopping vehicle movement, and there is real life risk. Hurting the ordinary person is not going to make big oil or the powers that be change their policies. It only hurts the cause.\nYou think I’m arguing against the message. I’m not. So, frankly, the one who needs to change their perspective is you. You are hurting the very people that you’re trying to get to join your cause… and, to be honest, you’re a hypocrite. Do you live in a hut with no electricity? How did you charge that device you’re typing on? Do you have any plastic in your house? Do you drive or have you ridden in a car at any point? Ever taken a plane flight?\nDon’t talk to others about their perspective needing to change when 1) they’re criticizing the ineffectual and selfish method, not the message, and 2) you are equally at fault in the big picture. You don’t have the moral high ground, at least with me, so don’t even try to take it.",
">\n\nYeah okay pal. If you think the hypothetical prospect of people being put \"in danger\" by some blocked traffic (I mean seriously? Roads get blocked for various reasons all the time and we just deal with it) isn't worth it to highlight the absolutely real and terrifying danger posed by climate change - I don't care how much you supposedly 'support the caue'. You don't have a shred of perspective or any undertsanding of the stakes.\nAnyway, you carry on in your little fantasy land where apparently nothing in the world is more important than people driving in their little cars or watever. \nI'll listen to the experts and people who have more authority on the subject.",
">\n\nThat tweet doesn’t support what you’re saying or go against what I’m saying. You’re a hypocrite who has no clue what he’s talking about. Continue typing your high horse nonsense while you do the very thing you’re complaining others are doing that is going to ruin the world. Did you type that Reddit post on Sanskrit? How much plastic do you have in your hut? Honestly, get off Reddit and go glue yourself to a highway and wait until someone who has an emergency rips you off the ground, justifiably.\nIf you want to do some good, go get a pertinent degree, join a lobbying group, go ham against the actual people that would need to make the changes we need. Until then, shut the fuck up. Seriously.",
">\n\nCool story senpai, it's been real nice watching you get your knickers in such a twist.",
">\n\nYou’re replying to me, kid. I’m not the one who wrote a novel about climate change to someone who actually works to address it. Carry on.",
">\n\nSure. Hey did I mention I'm Lula by the way?\nAnyway I don't give a shit what you do, you're still on the wrong side of history with your attitude.",
">\n\nThe right to protest does not include the right to prevent citizens from carrying out their daily business.",
">\n\nWhat if rail workers are striking and people have to find other ways to commute? Should that be illegal as well or does this rule only apply if car owners are inconvenienced? \nI understand it's annoying and people are understandably upset about being inconvenienced, but Extinction Rebellion did announce time and location of the protest ahead of time, so if you were affected, you could have picked another route, could have used public transport which is really awesome in the Netherlands or could have stayed home if it's not 100% necessary.",
">\n\nIf people were left stranded and trapped in their trains with no way to safely exit and choose another mode of transport, that would be unethical on the part of striking rail workers, and probably illegal. This is why rail strikes are planned, and the populace is given plenty of notice. So we can be supportive of, and not victim to, their protests. \nSame for cars. \nIf I know I advance that such and such freeway will be closed for a protest, I have the option of taking a different route. But if I’m confronted by an impassable road while already in transit, with no method of egress, now I’m in danger. I could suffer a mental or physical health crisis, suffer job loss and lose my only means of support, etc. Emergency vehicles cannot pass or gain entry. And on and on. \nIt is just as unethical for people in cars to be trapped and stranded by protests as it is for people in trains. And it should be illegal to block the roads for this purpose without plenty of prior warning and a permit. Just like parades have to have.",
">\n\nSo what you are saying is that since they announced ahead of time where the protest would take place, police should have just blocked that road and let them go ahead? Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can do that next time.",
">\n\nThis is actually what happened. Prior to the protestors entering the road, police started rerouting traffic from the two enclosing junctions. A very small detour actually, mild inconvenience at worst.",
">\n\nFalse. People ran on the road before the road was closed. Group george they called themselves?",
">\n\nYou can see it happening starting from around 2:00 in this Nieuwsuur segment.\nThe order of events seem to be:\n\nProtestors cross the street from Malieveld (using the zebra crossing).\nYou can see the police blocking at least the first lane and diverting traffic.\nPeople start entering (walking, not running) the street as a few more cars slowly roll by in the outer lane.\nClear.",
">\n\nEndanger? No. Disrupt? Absolutely, that's literally the point of a strike.",
">\n\nThat's a criminal act.",
">\n\nThey were given other places for protest, one being alongside of that same motorway and it was explicitly forbidden by a judge to block the highway, yet they did. Karma is a bitch.",
">\n\nIn other words, they were told to go someplace where nobody would notice their protest.\nWho benefits from that? Amongst others, certainly companies who profit off fossil fuels and don't want more bad press.",
">\n\nThe minute you violate others freedom of\nmovement, you are no longer the good guy. Sorry you feel people don’t pay attention otherwise, but this is a good way to get people to completely discount your cause.",
">\n\nUnder that logic US civil rights protestors in the 60's were not the good guys because they also disrupted people's movement. Do you think they were wrong to protest the way they did?",
">\n\nIf you’re referring to MLK, he petitioned for a permit to protest on motorways, giving people and emergency services a chance to plan around alternative routes.\nBut don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative",
">\n\nThat's similar to what happened here, too. Traffic was rerouted around the protest just like they'd do for an event. No harm, no foul.",
">\n\nI'm so glad they are protesting. I've mixed feelings about the how, but I'm glad they are acting.",
">\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading. Demonstrators are not supposed to violate other peoples' rights. Blockaders are intent on violating other peoples' rights.",
">\n\n\nThere is a difference between demonstrating and blockading\n\nThis came up elsewhere, please see my response there: blockades aren’t categorically exempt as a means of protest here.",
">\n\nBlocking a street endangers people. Anyone doing that should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.\nThere are a ton of ways to protest in a way that makes an impact and even inconveniences people but if you potentionally block an ambulance or a firetruck you are just an egomaniac, self righteous piece of shit.",
">\n\nAvoiding that particular blockade would take maybe 20 seconds if there was no other path except just barely around it.\nIt's in the middle of a city, with lots of parallel roads.\nIf emergency services can't handle one section of road being unavailable, you'd have to ban road construction work since that would kill people, too.",
">\n\nBy that logic arson should also be no big deal since fires can start in other ways too. \nRoad construction is necessary, and traffic can often not be avoided. \nThose things can also endanger lives but that doesn't mean you get to unnecessarily add more obstructions to feed your narcissism.\nThese people block traffic and endanger lives there is no bullshitting around that. Especially not with moronic made up claims like 'it only takes 20 seconds'. \nTo even try and defend this you must have absolutely zero empathy and reasoning skills.",
">\n\nHave you even looked at the location?\nIt really isn't a choke point.",
">\n\nLol they interviewed a young protester who glued himself to the asphalt. He complained that the police promised that they would remove them \"softly\" but according to him it wasn't soft enough and he showed some grey/black grease on his hand.\nLike what the fuck is wrong with you? You glue yourself to the asphalt with superglue and you blame the police you got hurt (just hurt, no lasting damage or what so ever) when they removed you?\nAnother guy...\nInterviewer: Why are you protesting on the highway? You are not allowed to protest here and the municipality of the city gave you permission to protest on a designated field in the city.\nProtester: Yeah but if we block a highway we get more attention.\n*Protester continues to mock the police*\n\nYeah totally fine to protest for climate if you want to, but if you're going to block highways and annoy other civilians with your actions don't be surprised if you get a little rough treatment.",
">\n\nTo be fair, the young guy didn't as much complain as just matter-of-factly state that the police just ripped his hand off the asphalt. A strip of asphalt was still stuck to his hand. The police are literally not allowed to do that. But it wasn't a big deal and he wasn't making a drama of it",
">\n\nTried to find the video but can't find it right now. Saw it on the news this weekend.\nWhat the guy did was not allowed and he knew. Don't blame this on the police. You can see on all videos from this weekend, and there are a lot, that all protesters have been treated respectfully.\n-edit-\nWhat you see on his hands is a mix of filth from the road + glue. If you glue your hand to asphalt and rip it of it's not like the asphalt is going to go anywhere lol, if anything would let loose it would be your skin in stead of asphalt.",
">\n\nI saw the video (7:08), and I was also there Saturday. It doesn't matter that gluing your hand to the street isn't allowed, it's still protected by the right to protest. \nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest. Thats not just my opinion, European law and human rights treaties agree. Amnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\nI agree that the police acted decently most of the time. But not all of the time. What you don't see on tv but what i did see sitting there on the street is the sneaky ways police do exert some violence. Twisting your limbs, pressing your head against the street, a sneaky thumb on the nose that hurts like hell. They can be pretty vicious when they think they can get away with it. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen",
">\n\n\nIt's the polices job to protect the expression of free speech, even if that breaks a law, as long as breaking the law is directly related to the protest.\n\nThe protest was illegal in the first place. How is gluing yourself to a highway directly related to a protest? That does not make sense at all. If you reason in that way you can also paint-spray on public walls and call it a protest and then say \"the police can not do anything about it as it is directly related to my protest\".\nThere was an option to protest on a given place and the police would make sure you could protest in peace, but you choose to go for a highway. \n\nAmnesty International has been pretty vocal about how the dutch government and police are not doing what they're supposed to, here.\n\nSorry to tell you but Amnesty International is not really a objective party and they don't have any legal authorization. Amnesty International also issued a report stating that Ukraine committed war crimes because their troops were positioned close to schools and hospitals... \nAnd the police hurting you when removing you from an illegal protest... Nobody outside the protesters really cares. You knew you were there illegal. The police asked every protester to leave voluntary, nobody did, instead people glued themselves to make it harder to remove them. Any complain about getting hurt when the police removes you is invalid upfront.\nPlay stupid games, win stupid prizes.",
">\n\nThe \"highway\" we blocked starts right there, coming from a big intersection with traffic lights in the city only 100m away from there. It's not like people are going 120km/h already. The spot we blocked lies right next to the ministry of economic affairs and the ministry of agriculture, the very institutions we are trying to get to listen. The protest is also about fossil fuels, so from that perspective blocking a road is also relevant. In short, the place is very appropriate, and it has parallel roads so that traffic is only mildly hindered. What better place to protest against those two governments than right here? \nIt sounds to me you've already made your mind up and just want to complain. I remain of the opinion that what we did was our right and completely justified. We're collectively fucking up the planet, and i just want to see that changed. Instead of talking about how we protest and if it's the best way, let's just fucking stop investing in fossil fuels already.",
">\n\nDo they sit on the highway to reduce CO2 emissions that day?\nDo they block traffic to gain sympathy from common people?",
">\n\nI know you’re asking these questions rhetorically but there is a very good reason for choosing this location: it is the road directly between Parliament on one side and the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Climate Policy on the other.\nThe demand of the protest was to end € 17,3 billion worth of yearly fossil subsidies and tax breaks as the government committed itself to in 2009, 2013 and 2019 but spectacularly failed to deliver on.",
">\n\nLol. 17B? Got any proof of that?\nDon't bother copying this guy Metten. He is very wrong with his 'calculations'",
">\n\nNo group should be allowed to block passage. And, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me. But, they need to be consistent in their enforcement. We should not see farmers receiving different treatment.",
">\n\n\nAnd, certainly, they should not be allowed to inconvenience me.\n\nGo tell that to the sea level. I am sure it will stop rising.",
">\n\nWell, if they were arrested for blocking the motorway I'm all for it, this needs to stop, these idiots need to learn one way or the other that it's not ok to make life impossible to people who are just going to work, and worse, risking causing actual damages by blocking roads.",
">\n\nNo one made life impossible. It would have been a 20 minute detour. According to your logic railworkers should not be allowed to protest either(only the US with its barbaric laws prohibts that)",
">\n\nyou do realize you can't reverse on certain roads, right? This is stupid for so many reasons, one of them is that they're pissing off people, turning them against them. And what if there's an ambulance that has to pass through? Do these idiots realize the possible implications? No, because they're idiots.",
">\n\nYou’re telling me, if you and a bunch of people block a highway, you’ll get arrested?! Woahhh what?",
">\n\nThis thread has convinced me that humanity deserves extinction",
">\n\nI love all the non-traffic engineers gas lighting people in this thread how blocking a road doesn’t cause issues or delays. Funny how one car accident in a downtown area can cause half an hours of backups but apparently protests that you agree with are easily avoided by omniscient and efficient motorists.",
">\n\nMy man, they let farmers for months on end block traffic left and right and blockade the fucking FOOD INFRASTRUCTURE (distribution centers were cut off and supermarkets couldn't stock their shelves, because the supply trucks couldn't leave the facilities) , and now they arrest one batch of protesters and suddenly they're restrictive as fuck? You need to look at the bigger picture here.",
">\n\nOf course, because they didn't protest, they caused blockades, disturbing everyday lifes of hundreds of people, angering them against their cause. Seriously, what dipshit thinks this is doing anything good?",
">\n\nI mean, the group is growing exponentially. Roughly 3000 people thought it did good this time. Was roughly 800 people when I attended last year.",
">\n\nProfits before people, billionaires before billions. The cattle shall not disrupt the ranchers.",
">\n\nMaking peaceful protest harder only makes violent protest more likely.",
">\n\n...blockade... Say no more. If you infringe on other people's rights, you aren't protesting, you are terrorizing.",
">\n\nThat is just not how the dutch right to protest works...",
">\n\nI got attacked by security when I protested after the Anne Frank house kicked me out for being disabled. Got no help from police. I have filed a human rights violation with them for the refusal of service. That my human right to \nProtest was violated while I was protesting for my human right to take part in society and not be told only for able bodied people was max irony."
] |
This is just one of the millions examples where our legal system is fucking disgusting.
But let’s also again spare a thought for Texas’ Crystal Mason, who cast a provisional ballot in the 2016 elections while on supervised release for a federal conviction. She didn’t know she was ineligible to vote, and her ballot was never counted, but Mason — a Black woman — was convicted of illegal voting and sentenced to five years in prison.
And yet, the aforementioned white voters received vastly more lenient sentences, despite the fact that they knowingly hatched schemes to cast illegal ballots.
[in case you skipped the article, all white voters got a year or less probation.]
The intent behind committing a crime matters!! Just not the way you thought lol. | [] |
>
That was a terrible result. A provisional ballot is one that is subject to review to determine its validity. There's no attempt to hide anything with a provisional ballot, and she wasn't trying to claim she was someone she wasn't. | [
"This is just one of the millions examples where our legal system is fucking disgusting.\n\nBut let’s also again spare a thought for Texas’ Crystal Mason, who cast a provisional ballot in the 2016 elections while on supervised release for a federal conviction. She didn’t know she was ineligible to vote, and her ballot was never counted, but Mason — a Black woman — was convicted of illegal voting and sentenced to five years in prison.\nAnd yet, the aforementioned white voters received vastly more lenient sentences, despite the fact that they knowingly hatched schemes to cast illegal ballots.\n\n[in case you skipped the article, all white voters got a year or less probation.]\nThe intent behind committing a crime matters!! Just not the way you thought lol."
] |
>
Hence, fucking disgusting. | [
"This is just one of the millions examples where our legal system is fucking disgusting.\n\nBut let’s also again spare a thought for Texas’ Crystal Mason, who cast a provisional ballot in the 2016 elections while on supervised release for a federal conviction. She didn’t know she was ineligible to vote, and her ballot was never counted, but Mason — a Black woman — was convicted of illegal voting and sentenced to five years in prison.\nAnd yet, the aforementioned white voters received vastly more lenient sentences, despite the fact that they knowingly hatched schemes to cast illegal ballots.\n\n[in case you skipped the article, all white voters got a year or less probation.]\nThe intent behind committing a crime matters!! Just not the way you thought lol.",
">\n\nThat was a terrible result. A provisional ballot is one that is subject to review to determine its validity. There's no attempt to hide anything with a provisional ballot, and she wasn't trying to claim she was someone she wasn't."
] |
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