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[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks)." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that", ">\n\nThe Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that", ">\n\nThe Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation.", ">\n\n\"Republican extortion scheme\" seems like a description of nearly everything they do." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that", ">\n\nThe Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation.", ">\n\n\"Republican extortion scheme\" seems like a description of nearly everything they do.", ">\n\nThe US doesn't negotiate with terrorists" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that", ">\n\nThe Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation.", ">\n\n\"Republican extortion scheme\" seems like a description of nearly everything they do.", ">\n\nThe US doesn't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nOnce there's a threat to the stock market and economic recession, the GOP corporate and billionaire donors will slap these children and get them to do their chores." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that", ">\n\nThe Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation.", ">\n\n\"Republican extortion scheme\" seems like a description of nearly everything they do.", ">\n\nThe US doesn't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nOnce there's a threat to the stock market and economic recession, the GOP corporate and billionaire donors will slap these children and get them to do their chores.", ">\n\nThis is cool for public imaging, I guess, but as a matter of governance, playing chicken on the debt ceiling is the worst possible option. The GOP is willing to let the global economy crumble to win. I'd be surprised, and quite disappointed, if there weren't already backroom meetings happening to get this solved." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that", ">\n\nThe Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation.", ">\n\n\"Republican extortion scheme\" seems like a description of nearly everything they do.", ">\n\nThe US doesn't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nOnce there's a threat to the stock market and economic recession, the GOP corporate and billionaire donors will slap these children and get them to do their chores.", ">\n\nThis is cool for public imaging, I guess, but as a matter of governance, playing chicken on the debt ceiling is the worst possible option. The GOP is willing to let the global economy crumble to win. I'd be surprised, and quite disappointed, if there weren't already backroom meetings happening to get this solved.", ">\n\nCan’t they just cut military spending?" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that", ">\n\nThe Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation.", ">\n\n\"Republican extortion scheme\" seems like a description of nearly everything they do.", ">\n\nThe US doesn't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nOnce there's a threat to the stock market and economic recession, the GOP corporate and billionaire donors will slap these children and get them to do their chores.", ">\n\nThis is cool for public imaging, I guess, but as a matter of governance, playing chicken on the debt ceiling is the worst possible option. The GOP is willing to let the global economy crumble to win. I'd be surprised, and quite disappointed, if there weren't already backroom meetings happening to get this solved.", ">\n\nCan’t they just cut military spending?", ">\n\nLet’s see how long this backbone lasts." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that", ">\n\nThe Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation.", ">\n\n\"Republican extortion scheme\" seems like a description of nearly everything they do.", ">\n\nThe US doesn't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nOnce there's a threat to the stock market and economic recession, the GOP corporate and billionaire donors will slap these children and get them to do their chores.", ">\n\nThis is cool for public imaging, I guess, but as a matter of governance, playing chicken on the debt ceiling is the worst possible option. The GOP is willing to let the global economy crumble to win. I'd be surprised, and quite disappointed, if there weren't already backroom meetings happening to get this solved.", ">\n\nCan’t they just cut military spending?", ">\n\nLet’s see how long this backbone lasts.", ">\n\nno cookies for you!" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that", ">\n\nThe Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation.", ">\n\n\"Republican extortion scheme\" seems like a description of nearly everything they do.", ">\n\nThe US doesn't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nOnce there's a threat to the stock market and economic recession, the GOP corporate and billionaire donors will slap these children and get them to do their chores.", ">\n\nThis is cool for public imaging, I guess, but as a matter of governance, playing chicken on the debt ceiling is the worst possible option. The GOP is willing to let the global economy crumble to win. I'd be surprised, and quite disappointed, if there weren't already backroom meetings happening to get this solved.", ">\n\nCan’t they just cut military spending?", ">\n\nLet’s see how long this backbone lasts.", ">\n\nno cookies for you!", ">\n\nThe United States Government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that", ">\n\nThe Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation.", ">\n\n\"Republican extortion scheme\" seems like a description of nearly everything they do.", ">\n\nThe US doesn't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nOnce there's a threat to the stock market and economic recession, the GOP corporate and billionaire donors will slap these children and get them to do their chores.", ">\n\nThis is cool for public imaging, I guess, but as a matter of governance, playing chicken on the debt ceiling is the worst possible option. The GOP is willing to let the global economy crumble to win. I'd be surprised, and quite disappointed, if there weren't already backroom meetings happening to get this solved.", ">\n\nCan’t they just cut military spending?", ">\n\nLet’s see how long this backbone lasts.", ">\n\nno cookies for you!", ">\n\nThe United States Government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nSenator, my offer is this: nothing." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that", ">\n\nThe Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation.", ">\n\n\"Republican extortion scheme\" seems like a description of nearly everything they do.", ">\n\nThe US doesn't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nOnce there's a threat to the stock market and economic recession, the GOP corporate and billionaire donors will slap these children and get them to do their chores.", ">\n\nThis is cool for public imaging, I guess, but as a matter of governance, playing chicken on the debt ceiling is the worst possible option. The GOP is willing to let the global economy crumble to win. I'd be surprised, and quite disappointed, if there weren't already backroom meetings happening to get this solved.", ">\n\nCan’t they just cut military spending?", ">\n\nLet’s see how long this backbone lasts.", ">\n\nno cookies for you!", ">\n\nThe United States Government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nSenator, my offer is this: nothing.", ">\n\nImagine wanting something in return for doin your fucking job." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that", ">\n\nThe Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation.", ">\n\n\"Republican extortion scheme\" seems like a description of nearly everything they do.", ">\n\nThe US doesn't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nOnce there's a threat to the stock market and economic recession, the GOP corporate and billionaire donors will slap these children and get them to do their chores.", ">\n\nThis is cool for public imaging, I guess, but as a matter of governance, playing chicken on the debt ceiling is the worst possible option. The GOP is willing to let the global economy crumble to win. I'd be surprised, and quite disappointed, if there weren't already backroom meetings happening to get this solved.", ">\n\nCan’t they just cut military spending?", ">\n\nLet’s see how long this backbone lasts.", ">\n\nno cookies for you!", ">\n\nThe United States Government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nSenator, my offer is this: nothing.", ">\n\nImagine wanting something in return for doin your fucking job.", ">\n\nDemocrats will not hold this stance, they will obviously compromise for something so important. The real question is whether the crazy wing of the GOP is willing to negotiate at all. That group has no problem with sending us all off a cliff without even knowing what they want." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that", ">\n\nThe Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation.", ">\n\n\"Republican extortion scheme\" seems like a description of nearly everything they do.", ">\n\nThe US doesn't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nOnce there's a threat to the stock market and economic recession, the GOP corporate and billionaire donors will slap these children and get them to do their chores.", ">\n\nThis is cool for public imaging, I guess, but as a matter of governance, playing chicken on the debt ceiling is the worst possible option. The GOP is willing to let the global economy crumble to win. I'd be surprised, and quite disappointed, if there weren't already backroom meetings happening to get this solved.", ">\n\nCan’t they just cut military spending?", ">\n\nLet’s see how long this backbone lasts.", ">\n\nno cookies for you!", ">\n\nThe United States Government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nSenator, my offer is this: nothing.", ">\n\nImagine wanting something in return for doin your fucking job.", ">\n\nDemocrats will not hold this stance, they will obviously compromise for something so important. The real question is whether the crazy wing of the GOP is willing to negotiate at all. That group has no problem with sending us all off a cliff without even knowing what they want.", ">\n\nWell, given the cost of eggs these days, who can afford to make cookies?" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that", ">\n\nThe Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation.", ">\n\n\"Republican extortion scheme\" seems like a description of nearly everything they do.", ">\n\nThe US doesn't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nOnce there's a threat to the stock market and economic recession, the GOP corporate and billionaire donors will slap these children and get them to do their chores.", ">\n\nThis is cool for public imaging, I guess, but as a matter of governance, playing chicken on the debt ceiling is the worst possible option. The GOP is willing to let the global economy crumble to win. I'd be surprised, and quite disappointed, if there weren't already backroom meetings happening to get this solved.", ">\n\nCan’t they just cut military spending?", ">\n\nLet’s see how long this backbone lasts.", ">\n\nno cookies for you!", ">\n\nThe United States Government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nSenator, my offer is this: nothing.", ">\n\nImagine wanting something in return for doin your fucking job.", ">\n\nDemocrats will not hold this stance, they will obviously compromise for something so important. The real question is whether the crazy wing of the GOP is willing to negotiate at all. That group has no problem with sending us all off a cliff without even knowing what they want.", ">\n\nWell, given the cost of eggs these days, who can afford to make cookies?", ">\n\nThe party of fiscal responsibility doesn’t want to be fiscally responsible…how convenient…" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that", ">\n\nThe Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation.", ">\n\n\"Republican extortion scheme\" seems like a description of nearly everything they do.", ">\n\nThe US doesn't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nOnce there's a threat to the stock market and economic recession, the GOP corporate and billionaire donors will slap these children and get them to do their chores.", ">\n\nThis is cool for public imaging, I guess, but as a matter of governance, playing chicken on the debt ceiling is the worst possible option. The GOP is willing to let the global economy crumble to win. I'd be surprised, and quite disappointed, if there weren't already backroom meetings happening to get this solved.", ">\n\nCan’t they just cut military spending?", ">\n\nLet’s see how long this backbone lasts.", ">\n\nno cookies for you!", ">\n\nThe United States Government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nSenator, my offer is this: nothing.", ">\n\nImagine wanting something in return for doin your fucking job.", ">\n\nDemocrats will not hold this stance, they will obviously compromise for something so important. The real question is whether the crazy wing of the GOP is willing to negotiate at all. That group has no problem with sending us all off a cliff without even knowing what they want.", ">\n\nWell, given the cost of eggs these days, who can afford to make cookies?", ">\n\nThe party of fiscal responsibility doesn’t want to be fiscally responsible…how convenient…", ">\n\nThis happens every political cycle. Finally the Dems are playing hardball with the GOP" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that", ">\n\nThe Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation.", ">\n\n\"Republican extortion scheme\" seems like a description of nearly everything they do.", ">\n\nThe US doesn't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nOnce there's a threat to the stock market and economic recession, the GOP corporate and billionaire donors will slap these children and get them to do their chores.", ">\n\nThis is cool for public imaging, I guess, but as a matter of governance, playing chicken on the debt ceiling is the worst possible option. The GOP is willing to let the global economy crumble to win. I'd be surprised, and quite disappointed, if there weren't already backroom meetings happening to get this solved.", ">\n\nCan’t they just cut military spending?", ">\n\nLet’s see how long this backbone lasts.", ">\n\nno cookies for you!", ">\n\nThe United States Government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nSenator, my offer is this: nothing.", ">\n\nImagine wanting something in return for doin your fucking job.", ">\n\nDemocrats will not hold this stance, they will obviously compromise for something so important. The real question is whether the crazy wing of the GOP is willing to negotiate at all. That group has no problem with sending us all off a cliff without even knowing what they want.", ">\n\nWell, given the cost of eggs these days, who can afford to make cookies?", ">\n\nThe party of fiscal responsibility doesn’t want to be fiscally responsible…how convenient…", ">\n\nThis happens every political cycle. Finally the Dems are playing hardball with the GOP", ">\n\nThe reason this is a poor argument is because they will absolutely crash the economy on purpose out of spite" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that", ">\n\nThe Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation.", ">\n\n\"Republican extortion scheme\" seems like a description of nearly everything they do.", ">\n\nThe US doesn't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nOnce there's a threat to the stock market and economic recession, the GOP corporate and billionaire donors will slap these children and get them to do their chores.", ">\n\nThis is cool for public imaging, I guess, but as a matter of governance, playing chicken on the debt ceiling is the worst possible option. The GOP is willing to let the global economy crumble to win. I'd be surprised, and quite disappointed, if there weren't already backroom meetings happening to get this solved.", ">\n\nCan’t they just cut military spending?", ">\n\nLet’s see how long this backbone lasts.", ">\n\nno cookies for you!", ">\n\nThe United States Government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nSenator, my offer is this: nothing.", ">\n\nImagine wanting something in return for doin your fucking job.", ">\n\nDemocrats will not hold this stance, they will obviously compromise for something so important. The real question is whether the crazy wing of the GOP is willing to negotiate at all. That group has no problem with sending us all off a cliff without even knowing what they want.", ">\n\nWell, given the cost of eggs these days, who can afford to make cookies?", ">\n\nThe party of fiscal responsibility doesn’t want to be fiscally responsible…how convenient…", ">\n\nThis happens every political cycle. Finally the Dems are playing hardball with the GOP", ">\n\nThe reason this is a poor argument is because they will absolutely crash the economy on purpose out of spite", ">\n\nIf they can’t do their jobs and govern, let’s call for new elections! I know we can’t, but what they’re doing is not governing. Holding the economy hostage is not governing." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that", ">\n\nThe Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation.", ">\n\n\"Republican extortion scheme\" seems like a description of nearly everything they do.", ">\n\nThe US doesn't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nOnce there's a threat to the stock market and economic recession, the GOP corporate and billionaire donors will slap these children and get them to do their chores.", ">\n\nThis is cool for public imaging, I guess, but as a matter of governance, playing chicken on the debt ceiling is the worst possible option. The GOP is willing to let the global economy crumble to win. I'd be surprised, and quite disappointed, if there weren't already backroom meetings happening to get this solved.", ">\n\nCan’t they just cut military spending?", ">\n\nLet’s see how long this backbone lasts.", ">\n\nno cookies for you!", ">\n\nThe United States Government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nSenator, my offer is this: nothing.", ">\n\nImagine wanting something in return for doin your fucking job.", ">\n\nDemocrats will not hold this stance, they will obviously compromise for something so important. The real question is whether the crazy wing of the GOP is willing to negotiate at all. That group has no problem with sending us all off a cliff without even knowing what they want.", ">\n\nWell, given the cost of eggs these days, who can afford to make cookies?", ">\n\nThe party of fiscal responsibility doesn’t want to be fiscally responsible…how convenient…", ">\n\nThis happens every political cycle. Finally the Dems are playing hardball with the GOP", ">\n\nThe reason this is a poor argument is because they will absolutely crash the economy on purpose out of spite", ">\n\nIf they can’t do their jobs and govern, let’s call for new elections! I know we can’t, but what they’re doing is not governing. Holding the economy hostage is not governing.", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that", ">\n\nThe Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation.", ">\n\n\"Republican extortion scheme\" seems like a description of nearly everything they do.", ">\n\nThe US doesn't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nOnce there's a threat to the stock market and economic recession, the GOP corporate and billionaire donors will slap these children and get them to do their chores.", ">\n\nThis is cool for public imaging, I guess, but as a matter of governance, playing chicken on the debt ceiling is the worst possible option. The GOP is willing to let the global economy crumble to win. I'd be surprised, and quite disappointed, if there weren't already backroom meetings happening to get this solved.", ">\n\nCan’t they just cut military spending?", ">\n\nLet’s see how long this backbone lasts.", ">\n\nno cookies for you!", ">\n\nThe United States Government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nSenator, my offer is this: nothing.", ">\n\nImagine wanting something in return for doin your fucking job.", ">\n\nDemocrats will not hold this stance, they will obviously compromise for something so important. The real question is whether the crazy wing of the GOP is willing to negotiate at all. That group has no problem with sending us all off a cliff without even knowing what they want.", ">\n\nWell, given the cost of eggs these days, who can afford to make cookies?", ">\n\nThe party of fiscal responsibility doesn’t want to be fiscally responsible…how convenient…", ">\n\nThis happens every political cycle. Finally the Dems are playing hardball with the GOP", ">\n\nThe reason this is a poor argument is because they will absolutely crash the economy on purpose out of spite", ">\n\nIf they can’t do their jobs and govern, let’s call for new elections! I know we can’t, but what they’re doing is not governing. Holding the economy hostage is not governing.", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nI think the FBI would advise against negotiating with terrorists.\nEven elected ones." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that", ">\n\nThe Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation.", ">\n\n\"Republican extortion scheme\" seems like a description of nearly everything they do.", ">\n\nThe US doesn't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nOnce there's a threat to the stock market and economic recession, the GOP corporate and billionaire donors will slap these children and get them to do their chores.", ">\n\nThis is cool for public imaging, I guess, but as a matter of governance, playing chicken on the debt ceiling is the worst possible option. The GOP is willing to let the global economy crumble to win. I'd be surprised, and quite disappointed, if there weren't already backroom meetings happening to get this solved.", ">\n\nCan’t they just cut military spending?", ">\n\nLet’s see how long this backbone lasts.", ">\n\nno cookies for you!", ">\n\nThe United States Government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nSenator, my offer is this: nothing.", ">\n\nImagine wanting something in return for doin your fucking job.", ">\n\nDemocrats will not hold this stance, they will obviously compromise for something so important. The real question is whether the crazy wing of the GOP is willing to negotiate at all. That group has no problem with sending us all off a cliff without even knowing what they want.", ">\n\nWell, given the cost of eggs these days, who can afford to make cookies?", ">\n\nThe party of fiscal responsibility doesn’t want to be fiscally responsible…how convenient…", ">\n\nThis happens every political cycle. Finally the Dems are playing hardball with the GOP", ">\n\nThe reason this is a poor argument is because they will absolutely crash the economy on purpose out of spite", ">\n\nIf they can’t do their jobs and govern, let’s call for new elections! I know we can’t, but what they’re doing is not governing. Holding the economy hostage is not governing.", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nI think the FBI would advise against negotiating with terrorists.\nEven elected ones.", ">\n\nCan I have a cookie then?" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that", ">\n\nThe Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation.", ">\n\n\"Republican extortion scheme\" seems like a description of nearly everything they do.", ">\n\nThe US doesn't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nOnce there's a threat to the stock market and economic recession, the GOP corporate and billionaire donors will slap these children and get them to do their chores.", ">\n\nThis is cool for public imaging, I guess, but as a matter of governance, playing chicken on the debt ceiling is the worst possible option. The GOP is willing to let the global economy crumble to win. I'd be surprised, and quite disappointed, if there weren't already backroom meetings happening to get this solved.", ">\n\nCan’t they just cut military spending?", ">\n\nLet’s see how long this backbone lasts.", ">\n\nno cookies for you!", ">\n\nThe United States Government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nSenator, my offer is this: nothing.", ">\n\nImagine wanting something in return for doin your fucking job.", ">\n\nDemocrats will not hold this stance, they will obviously compromise for something so important. The real question is whether the crazy wing of the GOP is willing to negotiate at all. That group has no problem with sending us all off a cliff without even knowing what they want.", ">\n\nWell, given the cost of eggs these days, who can afford to make cookies?", ">\n\nThe party of fiscal responsibility doesn’t want to be fiscally responsible…how convenient…", ">\n\nThis happens every political cycle. Finally the Dems are playing hardball with the GOP", ">\n\nThe reason this is a poor argument is because they will absolutely crash the economy on purpose out of spite", ">\n\nIf they can’t do their jobs and govern, let’s call for new elections! I know we can’t, but what they’re doing is not governing. Holding the economy hostage is not governing.", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nI think the FBI would advise against negotiating with terrorists.\nEven elected ones.", ">\n\nCan I have a cookie then?", ">\n\n“Republican extortion scheme” pretty much sums up their entire existence for the last 40 years." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that", ">\n\nThe Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation.", ">\n\n\"Republican extortion scheme\" seems like a description of nearly everything they do.", ">\n\nThe US doesn't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nOnce there's a threat to the stock market and economic recession, the GOP corporate and billionaire donors will slap these children and get them to do their chores.", ">\n\nThis is cool for public imaging, I guess, but as a matter of governance, playing chicken on the debt ceiling is the worst possible option. The GOP is willing to let the global economy crumble to win. I'd be surprised, and quite disappointed, if there weren't already backroom meetings happening to get this solved.", ">\n\nCan’t they just cut military spending?", ">\n\nLet’s see how long this backbone lasts.", ">\n\nno cookies for you!", ">\n\nThe United States Government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nSenator, my offer is this: nothing.", ">\n\nImagine wanting something in return for doin your fucking job.", ">\n\nDemocrats will not hold this stance, they will obviously compromise for something so important. The real question is whether the crazy wing of the GOP is willing to negotiate at all. That group has no problem with sending us all off a cliff without even knowing what they want.", ">\n\nWell, given the cost of eggs these days, who can afford to make cookies?", ">\n\nThe party of fiscal responsibility doesn’t want to be fiscally responsible…how convenient…", ">\n\nThis happens every political cycle. Finally the Dems are playing hardball with the GOP", ">\n\nThe reason this is a poor argument is because they will absolutely crash the economy on purpose out of spite", ">\n\nIf they can’t do their jobs and govern, let’s call for new elections! I know we can’t, but what they’re doing is not governing. Holding the economy hostage is not governing.", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nI think the FBI would advise against negotiating with terrorists.\nEven elected ones.", ">\n\nCan I have a cookie then?", ">\n\n“Republican extortion scheme” pretty much sums up their entire existence for the last 40 years.", ">\n\nStand Strong!" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that", ">\n\nThe Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation.", ">\n\n\"Republican extortion scheme\" seems like a description of nearly everything they do.", ">\n\nThe US doesn't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nOnce there's a threat to the stock market and economic recession, the GOP corporate and billionaire donors will slap these children and get them to do their chores.", ">\n\nThis is cool for public imaging, I guess, but as a matter of governance, playing chicken on the debt ceiling is the worst possible option. The GOP is willing to let the global economy crumble to win. I'd be surprised, and quite disappointed, if there weren't already backroom meetings happening to get this solved.", ">\n\nCan’t they just cut military spending?", ">\n\nLet’s see how long this backbone lasts.", ">\n\nno cookies for you!", ">\n\nThe United States Government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nSenator, my offer is this: nothing.", ">\n\nImagine wanting something in return for doin your fucking job.", ">\n\nDemocrats will not hold this stance, they will obviously compromise for something so important. The real question is whether the crazy wing of the GOP is willing to negotiate at all. That group has no problem with sending us all off a cliff without even knowing what they want.", ">\n\nWell, given the cost of eggs these days, who can afford to make cookies?", ">\n\nThe party of fiscal responsibility doesn’t want to be fiscally responsible…how convenient…", ">\n\nThis happens every political cycle. Finally the Dems are playing hardball with the GOP", ">\n\nThe reason this is a poor argument is because they will absolutely crash the economy on purpose out of spite", ">\n\nIf they can’t do their jobs and govern, let’s call for new elections! I know we can’t, but what they’re doing is not governing. Holding the economy hostage is not governing.", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nI think the FBI would advise against negotiating with terrorists.\nEven elected ones.", ">\n\nCan I have a cookie then?", ">\n\n“Republican extortion scheme” pretty much sums up their entire existence for the last 40 years.", ">\n\nStand Strong!", ">\n\nThe party of tax cuts also hates the debt? But I'm sure they'll have a solution this time around /s" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that", ">\n\nThe Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation.", ">\n\n\"Republican extortion scheme\" seems like a description of nearly everything they do.", ">\n\nThe US doesn't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nOnce there's a threat to the stock market and economic recession, the GOP corporate and billionaire donors will slap these children and get them to do their chores.", ">\n\nThis is cool for public imaging, I guess, but as a matter of governance, playing chicken on the debt ceiling is the worst possible option. The GOP is willing to let the global economy crumble to win. I'd be surprised, and quite disappointed, if there weren't already backroom meetings happening to get this solved.", ">\n\nCan’t they just cut military spending?", ">\n\nLet’s see how long this backbone lasts.", ">\n\nno cookies for you!", ">\n\nThe United States Government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nSenator, my offer is this: nothing.", ">\n\nImagine wanting something in return for doin your fucking job.", ">\n\nDemocrats will not hold this stance, they will obviously compromise for something so important. The real question is whether the crazy wing of the GOP is willing to negotiate at all. That group has no problem with sending us all off a cliff without even knowing what they want.", ">\n\nWell, given the cost of eggs these days, who can afford to make cookies?", ">\n\nThe party of fiscal responsibility doesn’t want to be fiscally responsible…how convenient…", ">\n\nThis happens every political cycle. Finally the Dems are playing hardball with the GOP", ">\n\nThe reason this is a poor argument is because they will absolutely crash the economy on purpose out of spite", ">\n\nIf they can’t do their jobs and govern, let’s call for new elections! I know we can’t, but what they’re doing is not governing. Holding the economy hostage is not governing.", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nI think the FBI would advise against negotiating with terrorists.\nEven elected ones.", ">\n\nCan I have a cookie then?", ">\n\n“Republican extortion scheme” pretty much sums up their entire existence for the last 40 years.", ">\n\nStand Strong!", ">\n\nThe party of tax cuts also hates the debt? But I'm sure they'll have a solution this time around /s", ">\n\n\"We don't negotiate with terrorists\"" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that", ">\n\nThe Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation.", ">\n\n\"Republican extortion scheme\" seems like a description of nearly everything they do.", ">\n\nThe US doesn't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nOnce there's a threat to the stock market and economic recession, the GOP corporate and billionaire donors will slap these children and get them to do their chores.", ">\n\nThis is cool for public imaging, I guess, but as a matter of governance, playing chicken on the debt ceiling is the worst possible option. The GOP is willing to let the global economy crumble to win. I'd be surprised, and quite disappointed, if there weren't already backroom meetings happening to get this solved.", ">\n\nCan’t they just cut military spending?", ">\n\nLet’s see how long this backbone lasts.", ">\n\nno cookies for you!", ">\n\nThe United States Government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nSenator, my offer is this: nothing.", ">\n\nImagine wanting something in return for doin your fucking job.", ">\n\nDemocrats will not hold this stance, they will obviously compromise for something so important. The real question is whether the crazy wing of the GOP is willing to negotiate at all. That group has no problem with sending us all off a cliff without even knowing what they want.", ">\n\nWell, given the cost of eggs these days, who can afford to make cookies?", ">\n\nThe party of fiscal responsibility doesn’t want to be fiscally responsible…how convenient…", ">\n\nThis happens every political cycle. Finally the Dems are playing hardball with the GOP", ">\n\nThe reason this is a poor argument is because they will absolutely crash the economy on purpose out of spite", ">\n\nIf they can’t do their jobs and govern, let’s call for new elections! I know we can’t, but what they’re doing is not governing. Holding the economy hostage is not governing.", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nI think the FBI would advise against negotiating with terrorists.\nEven elected ones.", ">\n\nCan I have a cookie then?", ">\n\n“Republican extortion scheme” pretty much sums up their entire existence for the last 40 years.", ">\n\nStand Strong!", ">\n\nThe party of tax cuts also hates the debt? But I'm sure they'll have a solution this time around /s", ">\n\n\"We don't negotiate with terrorists\"", ">\n\nFTA:\n“I don’t know why President Biden says he’s not going to negotiate,” House Freedom Caucus Chairman Scott Perry recently told ABC News.\nBecause Biden isn't in Congress? Just a thought. He's not in a position to negotiate a damn thing on a Congressional vote.\nThe Republicans have a majority, if they don't have the votes to pass something like this, that's on the Republicans to negotiate with themselves!" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years.", ">\n\nDems better hold to this or 2024 is not going to look good.", ">\n\nNo ice cream for you, Jack", ">\n\nI'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though.", ">\n\nLet them crash the economy, they want to keep acting like children, let them fuck around and find out. I'm sick and tired if these fucked politician facing no repercussions. Children have more respect for their fellow humans.", ">\n\nWhen Republicans are at the helm, they have no idea what to do. It's all reactionary politics and tax cuts with the GOP. They have no idea how to govern.", ">\n\nthis is the way", ">\n\nI like this energy. I hope they keep it up!", ">\n\nSomeone finally called it what it is - extortion.", ">\n\n\"President Joe Biden, McCarthy said, should begin the process now of negotiating with GOP leaders and making them happy so as to avoid a default.\"\nAh, so, fuck the American people. It's about making you guys happy. Weasel McCarthy and the GOP are such assholes.\nI don't know if it's best done now or later, but Dems need to get cracking on messaging here. It needs to be made crystal clear that this is a manufactured crisis and any negative impact on our economy rests squarely on the GQP, and more importantly McCarthy's shoulders.\nI'd love to see him lose the gavel in '24. Not only would that mean he lost, we'd also get to see Democrats choose a Speaker in one vote.", ">\n\nIt’s good to finally see the democrats have a backbone. It’s been sorely needed for a long time now", ">\n\nSimple answer to any republican extortion, we don’t negotiate with insurrectionists and terrorists.", ">\n\nWho even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.\nDeal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists!", ">\n\nSorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time", ">\n\nbUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!?", ">\n\nHow about AsHeY's DiAry!!!", ">\n\n\nWhat makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\n\nThis sums it up nicely.", ">\n\nRepublicans aren't reading the room.", ">\n\nSomeone needs to tell McCarthy and the House Freedom Caucus that the United States government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nLet them shut it down again- the polls always destroy the GOP when they pull this stunt. \nStop negotiating with wholly-owned-by Russian terrorists.", ">\n\nAnd by the time it matters, they’ve blamed debt increases on the party in the White House and act like they were acting in good faith all along. Then Republican voters act like it’s accurate.", ">\n\nWho cares what Republican voters act like? They support an overtly treasonous rapist criminal.", ">\n\nI am hoping that the dems post everything that the gop request. Let their true self exude from their greedy little bodies! I would like to see how many more right offs the gop request for the rich. Shameless SOB's!!", ">\n\nPoliticians making 6 figures once again doing the bare minimum funding the gov. before the deadline. Amazing how these clowns get paid so much money for doing literally fuck all to benefit ordinary working people.", ">\n\nWhat's ironic is the red states have high numbers of people on food stamps and struggling. Yet they vote Republican. Could it be because they still marry cousins in some of those Southern states.", ">\n\nIsn't it American policy not to negotiate with terrorists?", ">\n\nGuess the GOP can start putting up the facade of financial responsibility now that Trump isn't the one digging the hole anymore.", ">\n\nThey smell blood in the water for Social Security and Medicare Medicaid. That’s what they’re thinking. Oh those repubs.", ">\n\nImagine someone drowning and you’re standing 5 feet away with a life jacket saying “what will you give me for the life jacket?” Now imagine that person is your own brother. Congratulations, you know how it feels to be a republican.", ">\n\nAlso your brother is currently drowning right next to you and is willing to die too if you don’t concede to his demands", ">\n\nHoly shit Democrats finally realized they don't have to negotiate with uncompromising madmen. They finally fucking did it. The final horseman of the apocalypse has arrived.", ">\n\n\"We have to tell them there is no table.\" \nDemocrats finally found their balls.", ">\n\nAbout fucking time the Democratic party plays hardball with the GOP. The GOP simply cannot be trusted to work for Americans.", ">\n\nGood. Call their bluff. Let it be known that the GOP are at fault for crashing the economy\nKeep in mind, crashing the economy would have a significant impact on all the shady investments GOP members have, and also the corporations they answer to. They have a lot more to lose than they'd ever let on", ">\n\nNotice that in the past 15 years that the only time the government is at risk of shutdown or default is when the Republicans are in charge of the House. What does that tell you? 🤔", ">\n\nRepublicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. \nEither way they blink and extend the ceiling.", ">\n\nNah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of \"out of control Dem spending.\"\nThe GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does.", ">\n\nI agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line.", ">\n\nWell done! Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here.", ">\n\nEverything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult.", ">\n\nLol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs.", ">\n\nIm pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position.", ">\n\nThis isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to!", ">\n\nI'm so glad to be past the age of Pelosi. I don't miss the days of Democrats loudly promising compromise as soon as they take office", ">\n\nWe don’t deal with terrorists foreign or domestic.", ">\n\nShould we seek to be elected on the merits of our well thought out policy and steadfast beliefs? No, let's hold the American economy and people hostage and try and ram through some absolute bullshit.", ">\n\nIf they wanted to save money and stop deficit spending they should have done it when they had control of congress. Instead they cut taxes, which is the exact opposite.\nYou don't get to run up the deficit and then dig your heels in over borrowing when you think gridlock makes the opposition look bad.", ">\n\nWe're always the grown-ups.", ">\n\nWhat is this? Balls? Did the Dems finally grow balls?\nOmg!", ">\n\nWow, I'm actually impressed. This is the first time in my life the Dems have ever responded appropriately to GOP budget fuckery.", ">\n\nMint the coin", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nGood.", ">\n\nJust an FYI, contrary to what some think, raising the debt ceiling had nothing to do with adding to the debt. It is to pay for prior obligations.\n\"Default on financial obligations\nIf the debt ceiling is not raised and extraordinary measures are exhausted, the U.S. government is legally unable to borrow money to pay its financial obligations. At that point, it must cease making payments unless the treasury has cash on hand to cover them.\"\nAnd most of the debt is held by us.\n\"Some 70% of the national debt is owned by domestic government, institutions investors and the Federal Reserve. A shade under 30% is owned by foreign entities, according to the latest information from the U.S. Treasury.\"", ">\n\nit's about goddamn time we started playing hardball with these pathetic playground bullies.\nNow let's make sure that everyone knows this \"meet us halfway while we take six big steps back\" GOP bullshit stands no more.", ">\n\n“Hey, dumbass traitor do your fucking job.”\n\nthe US", ">\n\n\"I know we were a massive disappointment in this year's midterms because of our extremist values. Does anyone have any better ideas to appeal to moderates?\"\n\"What if we go full terrorist and crash the world's economy?\"\n\"Bingo.\"\n\nRepublicans", ">\n\nDo not negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nThere was never doubt that the Repugnants would get the poltroon McCarthy in as Speaker before Jan 13th. Otherwise, they would not be paid. They don't care what damage they do - especially to Social Security and Medicare, because it doesn't fit into their agenda: taxcuts and handouts for billionaires, megamillionaires and polluters paid for by working people - as long as they get a paycheck (and donor kickbacks).", ">\n\nAnyone read the headline/description in gene wilders Charlie and the chocolate factory voice? YOU GET NOTHING!", ">\n\nThe US media has to inform the public that Republicans blow up the deficit every time they get a chance, and as soon as a president has a D before his name they turn into “spending hawks”. This game needs to end, and it will only happen when the public gets tired of their bullshit.", ">\n\nMost important passage in the article: “What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.”", ">\n\nExcellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how.", ">\n\nThat’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass", ">\n\nWhy doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what?", ">\n\nJust let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days. They get to save face and life goes on.", ">\n\nYou don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed", ">\n\nYup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that", ">\n\nThe Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation.", ">\n\n\"Republican extortion scheme\" seems like a description of nearly everything they do.", ">\n\nThe US doesn't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nOnce there's a threat to the stock market and economic recession, the GOP corporate and billionaire donors will slap these children and get them to do their chores.", ">\n\nThis is cool for public imaging, I guess, but as a matter of governance, playing chicken on the debt ceiling is the worst possible option. The GOP is willing to let the global economy crumble to win. I'd be surprised, and quite disappointed, if there weren't already backroom meetings happening to get this solved.", ">\n\nCan’t they just cut military spending?", ">\n\nLet’s see how long this backbone lasts.", ">\n\nno cookies for you!", ">\n\nThe United States Government doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nSenator, my offer is this: nothing.", ">\n\nImagine wanting something in return for doin your fucking job.", ">\n\nDemocrats will not hold this stance, they will obviously compromise for something so important. The real question is whether the crazy wing of the GOP is willing to negotiate at all. That group has no problem with sending us all off a cliff without even knowing what they want.", ">\n\nWell, given the cost of eggs these days, who can afford to make cookies?", ">\n\nThe party of fiscal responsibility doesn’t want to be fiscally responsible…how convenient…", ">\n\nThis happens every political cycle. Finally the Dems are playing hardball with the GOP", ">\n\nThe reason this is a poor argument is because they will absolutely crash the economy on purpose out of spite", ">\n\nIf they can’t do their jobs and govern, let’s call for new elections! I know we can’t, but what they’re doing is not governing. Holding the economy hostage is not governing.", ">\n\n“We don’t negotiate with terrorists.”", ">\n\nI think the FBI would advise against negotiating with terrorists.\nEven elected ones.", ">\n\nCan I have a cookie then?", ">\n\n“Republican extortion scheme” pretty much sums up their entire existence for the last 40 years.", ">\n\nStand Strong!", ">\n\nThe party of tax cuts also hates the debt? But I'm sure they'll have a solution this time around /s", ">\n\n\"We don't negotiate with terrorists\"", ">\n\nFTA:\n“I don’t know why President Biden says he’s not going to negotiate,” House Freedom Caucus Chairman Scott Perry recently told ABC News.\nBecause Biden isn't in Congress? Just a thought. He's not in a position to negotiate a damn thing on a Congressional vote.\nThe Republicans have a majority, if they don't have the votes to pass something like this, that's on the Republicans to negotiate with themselves!", ">\n\nThe United States does not negotiate with terrorists." ]

[]

[ "Just waiting for it to be called what it is, an act of domestic terrorism." ]

[ "Just waiting for it to be called what it is, an act of domestic terrorism.", ">\n\nOr you know, the FBI/law enforcement to at least get a fraction of enthusiasm they had for the \"war on drugs\", or other stupid stuff they loved. Blows my mind how little fucks seem to be given over straight up domestic terrorism. Why aren't they throwing the Patriot Act around and all that like they used to? You'd think they wouldn't need a formal invitation to do their jobs, especially on something like this where they might be allowed to access/use the more \"fun\" tools and such.\nFigures the time we're actually threatened they take a back seat approach." ]

[ "Just waiting for it to be called what it is, an act of domestic terrorism.", ">\n\nOr you know, the FBI/law enforcement to at least get a fraction of enthusiasm they had for the \"war on drugs\", or other stupid stuff they loved. Blows my mind how little fucks seem to be given over straight up domestic terrorism. Why aren't they throwing the Patriot Act around and all that like they used to? You'd think they wouldn't need a formal invitation to do their jobs, especially on something like this where they might be allowed to access/use the more \"fun\" tools and such.\nFigures the time we're actually threatened they take a back seat approach.", ">\n\nI’m in Eastern NC & have been hearing that the Moore County attack was perpetrated by law enforcement." ]

[ "Just waiting for it to be called what it is, an act of domestic terrorism.", ">\n\nOr you know, the FBI/law enforcement to at least get a fraction of enthusiasm they had for the \"war on drugs\", or other stupid stuff they loved. Blows my mind how little fucks seem to be given over straight up domestic terrorism. Why aren't they throwing the Patriot Act around and all that like they used to? You'd think they wouldn't need a formal invitation to do their jobs, especially on something like this where they might be allowed to access/use the more \"fun\" tools and such.\nFigures the time we're actually threatened they take a back seat approach.", ">\n\nI’m in Eastern NC & have been hearing that the Moore County attack was perpetrated by law enforcement.", ">\n\nHonestly wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Having known a few law enforcement, they're not exactly the stable types." ]

[ "Just waiting for it to be called what it is, an act of domestic terrorism.", ">\n\nOr you know, the FBI/law enforcement to at least get a fraction of enthusiasm they had for the \"war on drugs\", or other stupid stuff they loved. Blows my mind how little fucks seem to be given over straight up domestic terrorism. Why aren't they throwing the Patriot Act around and all that like they used to? You'd think they wouldn't need a formal invitation to do their jobs, especially on something like this where they might be allowed to access/use the more \"fun\" tools and such.\nFigures the time we're actually threatened they take a back seat approach.", ">\n\nI’m in Eastern NC & have been hearing that the Moore County attack was perpetrated by law enforcement.", ">\n\nHonestly wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Having known a few law enforcement, they're not exactly the stable types.", ">\n\nEx-cop and now a fireman used to me my first floor neighbor in NJ. The guy plays music too loud that it could be heard from upstairs. The guy wanted to hang toys that are shaped like balls (human anatomy) from the back of his truck. The previous president of the condo association and a few neighbors didn’t like it, so they prohibited him from doing that using a by-law or something (I disagree with that decision btw). The guy sued the condo association and fought for almost two years in court about that. Whenever I see him in the stairways and said Hi a couple of times, he just ignored me (he didn’t to my downstairs neighbor), so I stopped greeting him afterwards. He would park his firetruck in front of the building to check on his dog/cat during the day while he is supposed to be working. Every time he makes such visit to feed his dog/cat, it takes about 30 mins and he and his firefighter coworker would just take it easy/slow while blocking a huge chunk of the parking space in front of the apartment. \nNeedless to say that the guy is very likely a stereotypical asshole ex-cop that we used to hear/read about (I mean there are very likely a decent amount of good police folks but I wouldn’t be surprised the profession draws a certain type of people more so than others. I also worry that when another insurrection happens, there would be so many cops, ex-cops, military and ex-military that it would be very hard to put down the uprising (my home country, Myanmar, always have been under military rule and people there know too well how police and army work together to suppress people there)." ]

[ "Just waiting for it to be called what it is, an act of domestic terrorism.", ">\n\nOr you know, the FBI/law enforcement to at least get a fraction of enthusiasm they had for the \"war on drugs\", or other stupid stuff they loved. Blows my mind how little fucks seem to be given over straight up domestic terrorism. Why aren't they throwing the Patriot Act around and all that like they used to? You'd think they wouldn't need a formal invitation to do their jobs, especially on something like this where they might be allowed to access/use the more \"fun\" tools and such.\nFigures the time we're actually threatened they take a back seat approach.", ">\n\nI’m in Eastern NC & have been hearing that the Moore County attack was perpetrated by law enforcement.", ">\n\nHonestly wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Having known a few law enforcement, they're not exactly the stable types.", ">\n\nEx-cop and now a fireman used to me my first floor neighbor in NJ. The guy plays music too loud that it could be heard from upstairs. The guy wanted to hang toys that are shaped like balls (human anatomy) from the back of his truck. The previous president of the condo association and a few neighbors didn’t like it, so they prohibited him from doing that using a by-law or something (I disagree with that decision btw). The guy sued the condo association and fought for almost two years in court about that. Whenever I see him in the stairways and said Hi a couple of times, he just ignored me (he didn’t to my downstairs neighbor), so I stopped greeting him afterwards. He would park his firetruck in front of the building to check on his dog/cat during the day while he is supposed to be working. Every time he makes such visit to feed his dog/cat, it takes about 30 mins and he and his firefighter coworker would just take it easy/slow while blocking a huge chunk of the parking space in front of the apartment. \nNeedless to say that the guy is very likely a stereotypical asshole ex-cop that we used to hear/read about (I mean there are very likely a decent amount of good police folks but I wouldn’t be surprised the profession draws a certain type of people more so than others. I also worry that when another insurrection happens, there would be so many cops, ex-cops, military and ex-military that it would be very hard to put down the uprising (my home country, Myanmar, always have been under military rule and people there know too well how police and army work together to suppress people there).", ">\n\nHe probably didn't respond to you because you aren't white. I am half Irish and it really shows, but my name matches my other race and once some people know I am an other they treat me differently. Some people are subtle, some make tonedeaf remarks, some make racist remarks, some just avoid you." ]