Datasets:

---

innovation-hacking2

/

shitposting_dataset1

like 0

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force..." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\"." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\"." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\"." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House" ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\"." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage." ]

[ "i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\nthe wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing.", ">\n\n\nthey're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.\n\nthat's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so.", ">\n\nI truly don’t know if they’re willing to burn it all down, or if they’re just irrationally short sighted and wildly overestimating their own hard bargaining skills. I mean, it’s always and only about stock prices and reducing tax liability for them, a market crash is terrible for their owners. It’s maybe more like a 14 year old with a gun and why wouldn’t he rob a gas station? It’s his parents that’ll be in trouble anyway for not locking up the gun. What could go wrong?", ">\n\n\na market crash is terrible for their owners.\n\nNot when their wealth is far beyond magnitudes of \"mattering anymore,\" and that's what we are risking with today's gilded age billionaires, they are playing with Monopoly money.", ">\n\nOr maybe they’re certain that they can absolutely loot the rubble once the economy implodes. As they always do when catastrophe comes around.", ">\n\nExcept for that one time with gamestop. That was entertaining to watch. Can it happen again please?", ">\n\nThat was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator.", ">\n\nthank you for including the ‘okina!", ">\n\nI am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. \nI did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid!", ">\n\nsince ur interested in grammar, another little factoid: it is considered a letter in the Hawaiian language, as it represents a glottal stop\nso it’s Ha - wai - ee (and the w is pronounced like a v so it’s : ha- Vai - ee) \nnote that it isn’t used in the word “Hawaiian” though", ">\n\nAny particular reason Hawaiian isn't \"Hawai‘ian\"? Or just cuz?", ">\n\nIt’s considered an English word so it doesn’t have the 'okina as it’s in English spelling, not Hawaiian.", ">\n\nAh makes sense, not like another language would necessarily just add \"-an\" as a suffix too; that makes it English\nIt'd be like saying \"España-ish\" for Spanish (nationality) haha", ">\n\nyes that! Native Hawaiians call themselves kānaka or kānaka maoli or kānaka 'ōiwi or Hawai'i maoli\nedit: also to add, ‘Hawaiian language’ is 'Ōlelo Hawai'i in Hawaiian\na correction below points out that Kānaka is the plural form, it’s kanaka for singular as well", ">\n\nThis thread would make for a way better table than Republicans and Democrats sitting at one regarding the debt ceiling.\nEdit: /tableflip\n`(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻", ">\n\nall public schools in hawaii have mandatory hawaiian studies classes in k-12. they cover ancient hawaiian culture, family structure, laws, sports, traditions, customs, societal structure/roles, food, language, history, naval exploration.\nthe university of hawaii also has hawaiian studies as a basic requirement for most degrees.\nit's an extremely rich, amazing culture.", ">\n\nRepublicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way.", ">\n\nTrump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems", ">\n\nDear god, I actually forgot. They controlled everything but chose to shut it down because the TV was being mean to trump about his wall. (And, of course, blamed the left.)", ">\n\nWorse part was dems offered a 25bil compromise for his borderwall vanity project and trump then started the longest shutdown in us history. To in the end only getting 5, what a loser", ">\n\nYep, I just re-read the entire thing. How half his base didn't immediately go, \"oh, this guy is stupid\" I'll never understand.\nFuckin' Art of the Deal, baby!", ">\n\nThey are equally stupid, that's how.", ">\n\nEqually stupid, all with dreams of being as rich and openly bigoted as someone like Trump.", ">\n\nMy coworker's family are largely in their 60s, disability, haven't worked in decades. They constantly talk about \"when I get rich this, when I'm a millionaire that\". Like, wtf do you think you are doing that will cause this wealth to materialize? I'm out here trying to put out hit music (jury is out), get a law degree, snag a sugar momma etc etc. WTF do they do? They play the lotto...okay, I'll admit, they probably got the same chances as I do, but at least even without the wealth I'll have something to show for it. \nOh yeah, forgot to mention those folk's' favorite politician. They weren't the \"own the libs\" type, nor the \"hands of my taxes\" type. Instead, what they liked about Trump was that he was a smart businessman. The smartest businessman in the entire world, by their estimation. These folk are fucking idiots. \nAnd that's just one group of idiots under the idiotic umbrella of Trump supporters. There are so many more. I won't pretend like their ain't idiots in my camp, but Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.", ">\n\n\nbut Trump's camp seems to be exclusively idiotic.\n\nI mean, he's a large-scale grifter, and a pretty obvious one at that, and it's hardly ever smart people that are targeted by, or fall for, such hucksters. It should hardly come as a surprise that his base is, to say the least, gullible in the extreme.", ">\n\nGood. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.\n“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976\n“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.\nTreasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.\nYellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.\nHere’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:\nFirst, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.\nThis produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”\nSecond, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.\nThis will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.\nAnd, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.\nAnd, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”\nThis was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time.", ">\n\nThis should be its own TIL because I'm sure many of us never heard of this Strategy, but the concept of a group taking actions to impede another group then blame them with media support is one I always suspected was the norm in two party politics.", ">\n\nit would be great if the democratic party could get their fucking act together on messaging. like biden going to places that got infrastructure money, and having all party members and all senators tweeting the same things. \ni saw local news today, and they're making a bigger deal out of biden's classified documents issue than they did out of trumps. get it together. there is no such thing as going high anymore, politics is mud wrestling and democrats are trying to win without getting dirty.", ">\n\nThey are portraying Biden as a senile old man who had classified documents floating around his home like that plastic bag in American Beauty. Meanwhile they gloss over the fact that Trump refused to return the documents after the DOJ and the FBI asked him too.", ">\n\nBiden had classified documents in his home. Trump had stolen Secret Compartmented Information documents in his pool shed at the resort he owns and frequently allows foreign dignitaries to visit. These are not the same things", ">\n\n...and informed law enforcement and voluntarily handed the documents back the instant they were discovered, while the other had to have them seized by force...", ">\n\nExactly. These are two totally different scenarios. The documents Trump had weren’t even supposed to leave a specific bunker. They were literally the most classified a classified document can get", ">\n\nIn exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”\nAsked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables", ">\n\n\nWe can't afford a table\nRepubs pass a debt bill to be able to afford tables\n4d checkmate", ">\n\nStock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. \nLet it play out.", ">\n\nI think you underestimate what default on our debt means, it's massively worse on a number of levels than a stock market crash", ">\n\nWhich is why it won’t happen. Push comes to shove, the President says “Lmao fuck you, I’m paying the bills anyway.”\nWe will not default. I guarantee it.", ">\n\ncash currency isnt the kind of mone they need... they need to sell bonds, and if the credit worthiness of the US is in question then that whole equation gets fucked. kind of how the yield curves for the 10/2, and 10/3m are currently inverted. shits fucked and the GOP is about to step into it because these children dont understand the difference between household debt and national debt.. fuck, if only we had a better education system, ppl would take this shit seriously.", ">\n\nWhat would this do to the value of the Dollar?", ">\n\nIn the modern financial system, treasuries are just cash that pays interest. Minting a $1 trillion dollars of new currency is functionally equivalent to issuing $1 trillion of new debt.", ">\n\nI understand that. But that effects the valuation of those treasury notes.", ">\n\nThe debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past legislation in the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage.", ">\n\nWhich is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:\n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned.", ">\n\nYet I had a dipshit try to tell me yesterday that the debt is still valid even if you default on it. It's like people don't know a single damned thing about how money, debt, and credit work\nThe \"called into question\" bit is muy importante", ">\n\nSeems like this makes the law about the debt ceiling pretty obviously unconstitutional. And with the recent court rulings about student loan forgiveness it should be ridiculously easy now to establish standing.", ">\n\nPack the court. Represent the people!", ">\n\nThey...did that with Citizens United. 'The People' (aka corporations) with the most money are now making our decisions for us with their voting dollars. Since, you know, reasons.", ">\n\nBecause by reverse rationalizing, we've made it so that corporations are people, and money is speech!\nIt's a pretty clever trick - like we can undermine anything if we just change the meanings of words. I know language evolves, but this way just seems like legalistic sabotage.", ">\n\nYea, honestly it’s extremely dubious. If I give money to terrorists, is it speech? If I give money to a judge, is it speech?\nNo. It’s material support and it’s either treason or an illegal bribe. It’s only speech when corps pay congress members. A tidy little arrangement.", ">\n\nActually a good point... What separates donating money to say the Taliban vs the GOP or one of their pet SCROTUS judges? Technically all you're doing is voicing your monetary support, and ideologically the two are becoming identical.", ">\n\nAnd like, similar or not, isn’t it all just protected speech? Money = speech. Corps = people. That is the foundation of the judgement.\nIt’s just very nakedly bad reasoning.", ">\n\nSomehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan.", ">\n\nMy parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always \"they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on\" or, if it's a bill, \"they're voting against all the pork in the bill\"", ">\n\nIt's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them \"what is the pork in the bill?\" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time.", ">\n\nWhich, for my parents, is always \"I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something\" which is a fruitless argument", ">\n\nY'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like. It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise", ">\n\nFor example, the bill that gave biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas.", ">\n\nI heard Biden personally culled millions of sick chickens.", ">\n\nNah, that one was on me. \nTBF, Antifa hired me to do it.", ">\n\nDid you use the Jewish space laser, and did you control it with the Bill Gates 5G chip inserted with the COVID vaccine?", ">\n\nI see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional?", ">\n\nPlenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option\nHopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there", ">\n\nThere is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: \n\nThe validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. \n\nCongress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement?", ">\n\nWe don’t negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nYou get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!", ">\n\nI scrolled waaaay too far down to find this.", ">\n\nGood. The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people. Someone needs to say \"enough\".", ">\n\n\nWhat Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.\nIf the new House majority wants to try to pass a bill through the American legislative process, pursuing cuts to public investments, it’s welcome to try to do so. But declaring that they’ll crash the economy deliberately unless Democrats meet their demands is an indefensible tactic that cannot be tolerated.\n\nDamn right.", ">\n\nGood. We do not negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\nI don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm.", ">\n\nAI to the rescue.", ">\n\nSo Trump and gang do huge tax breaks for the rich \nSo this leads to bigger deficit and therefore rising national debt. \nNOW, the GQP wants to cut all of the ‘poor people programs’ because there is now too much debt. !??!??", ">\n\nPretty much. As soon as they took the house I knew they were going to manufacture another debt ceiling crisis. Oh look republicans are back in control of the house with a dem president, guess it’s time to shut down the government and fuck over a bunch of people for months on end. Convenient that it wasn’t an issue when it was their guy in office.", ">\n\nThat is the correct response.", ">\n\nIdeally dems would say, \"Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts. Since you are worried about financial responsibility\".", ">\n\nRepublicans subscribe to magical economics where tax cuts shrink the deficit.", ">\n\nIs it that time of year already?\nAnd why was this never a thing when Trump happily added trillions to the US debt?", ">\n\nSo what do I get for not blowing up the bank?\nnothing. Not blowing up the bank is the standard.\nBut I could blow up the bank.\nI suppose, but why would you blow up the bank?\nBecause I can get something out of not blowing it up.\nThat makes no sense.\nIt's how I feel. It doesn't have to make sense. I want to get something out of not blowing up the bank.\nThat's called extortion.\nNo, no. Extortion is if I threaten you. I'm not threatening anything. I just want a reward for not blowing up the bank.\nHow about the feeling you get when you don't do horrible things?\nYou're not getting this.", ">\n\nIf they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell?", ">\n\nYes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists.", ">\n\nTerrorWASPS were a thing during the Pandemic...weren't they?", ">\n\nI don't know what changed but I'm glad the Dems are finally pushing back properly.", ">\n\nGood. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use.", ">\n\nI think the crazy bastards are actually going to do it this time. The GQP has gone collectively insane and they're dragging the rest of us down with them.", ">\n\nAgreed, there's no bridge they won't burn. They'll light themselves on fire to try to \"own the libs\".", ">\n\nStay strong Dems. Don’t give in to terrorists.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t normalize it. \nTreat them like the children they are.", ">\n\nRepublicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies. I fucking hate them so much. Republicans are our enemies.", ">\n\nThis is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?!", ">\n\nUm, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please”", ">\n\nHow come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much.", ">\n\nBecause they work for the Fucking Russians.", ">\n\nDon't negotiate with terrorists", ">\n\nSo Republican's are threatning to not do their jobs and to screw over the American people again unless the Democrat's give them more power. Seems about right.", ">\n\nrepublicans always lose the debt ceiling fight. they money was appropriated by congress. don’t like it? fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending", ">\n\nYes. Do this more and often. Broadcast to the world that it's the GOP crashing everything and pound it into people's heads until they think they never thought otherwise.", ">\n\nIf a hostage taker gets a reward, all he will do is take more hostages.", ">\n\nIn some cases, \"we don't negotiate with terrorists\" needs to be true.", ">\n\nThis will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. \nAnd eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on.", ">\n\nWeird how there wasn’t a single discussion about debt during the four years of Trump, but once a Democrat is elected it is suddenly an issue. Strange.\nRepublicans only care about debt when there’s a Democrat in the White House", ">\n\nActually there was a fight among Republicans over that during Trump's turn.", ">\n\nGood. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.", ">\n\n\n\"no you don't get a cookie\"\n\nCan we make that a meme? If the right has Let's Go Brandon or \"Lock her up\" Can we please make a meme out of \"No you don't get a cookie\".", ">\n\nThis is the way. Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase. If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes.", ">\n\nMint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it.", ">\n\nJust don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it.", ">\n\nThe only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof.", ">\n\nI propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. \nConversely - the answer is no.", ">\n\nLol this already? I hate republicans for this shit they play every time. They’ll do anything but be genuine or work toward good things for Americans.", ">\n\nThat’s the proper answer: “NO”. \nAt some point the Dems have to stop letting these dish throwers “negotiate over whether they’re going to throw dishes at the wall”.\nFuck that. If they want to wreck the place, make sure they suffer the consequences FIRST, ever and always.", ">\n\nI'm so sick of Republicans holding the country hostage.", ">\n\nJesus christ if the GOP ever get the White House, Senate and House again they will sell us down the river for a dollar. Hopefully the Trump Judiciary won't completely destroy global Democracy before they all leave office in 35 years." ]